The Footie Thread

[GG26]

Everton’s breach was due to money spent on the stadium as opposed to signings , also the Forest breach’s are known after the season has finished

Leicester didn’t get relegated because of Everton and Forest

It was the same when Sheff Utd were complaining when they got relegated

It was in Leicester’s own hands

It doesn’t matter what Everton spent the money on, they broke the rules. If they were funding the stadium then they needed to cut back on the playing squad to keep within the rules.

So what if Forest realised after the season finished. Surely their finance team must have been keeping a tab on this.

What we have is two teams that stayed up at the expense of one that didn’t invest in order to comply with the FFP rules. The margin was miniscule, ie one goal scored or not conceded would have made the difference between staying up or relegation. Can you say categorically that if all three teams spent within the rules the positions would have remained unaltered? Of course you can’t.

It’s probably done Leicester some good to rebuild, but that’s not the point. Someone else has broken the rules and it’s cost us £100m and they have likely got away with what effectively amounts to a slap on the wrist.

 

[Liverbirdie]

Your detecting device is spot on in my case. Can't stand Liverpool. Hate everything about them, from their stupid tooth whitening, over celebrating coach, to their players, to their fans (most, not all). I've hated them since the late 70's when my brother decided to jump on the bandwagon and support them because they were successful.

Meanwhile my "second" teams at that time were Ipswich (my grandfather was manager of Colchester Building Society and got tickets for us to watch a game and meet the team, I even had a teddy bear named Kevin Beattie bear), WBA in the Laurie Cunningham/Cyrille Regis days and Norwich because they were our nearest top flight team.

The worst collection of clubs picked, since I bought a set of Tanaka game improvement clubs in 1990.

 

[Don Barzini]

On the issue of FFP, there’s obviously been loads written and talked about Forest/Everton but it seems to me City doesn’t get talked about and speculated about as much. Seems like any sort of final decision is way off.

I haven’t really seen or heard any wild speculation and guesswork by City fans themselves either. Be interested to hear their take on it. So, any City fans, what’s the feeling? Are you worried? What do you think you’ll face and when? Do you think you’re going to face demotion to a lower league? Or do you essentially think it’s all a lot of hot water, that nothing much will stick and you’ll come out the other side relatively unaffected?

Ditto Chelsea, as there are rumblings about them as well.

Or, how do non City/Chelsea fans see it?

 

[Bdill93]

Just a curios question.
Why didn't Emery do for Arsenal what he has done for Villa.
By the way, I really enjoy watching Villa, a great side. Except when they play Brighton!

Poisoned chalice I think.

Much like Moyes at United, whoever followed Wenger was always going to be under pressure to perform straight away.

His record at Arsenal wasn't even that bad, but the fans revolted and they moved on.

What's class is, he left there, picked himself back up and won more trophies elsewhere then came back to prove himself again in the prem.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

It doesn’t matter what Everton spent the money on, they broke the rules. If they were funding the stadium then they needed to cut back on the playing squad to keep within the rules.

So what if Forest realised after the season finished. Surely their finance team must have been keeping a tab on this.

What we have is two teams that stayed up at the expense of one that didn’t invest in order to comply with the FFP rules. The margin was miniscule, ie one goal scored or not conceded would have made the difference between staying up or relegation. Can you say categorically that if all three teams spent within the rules the positions would have remained unaltered? Of course you can’t.

It’s probably done Leicester some good to rebuild, but that’s not the point. Someone else has broken the rules and it’s cost us £100m and they have likely got away with what effectively amounts to a slap on the wrist.

How does the above fit with Leicester breaking FFP rules to get out of the Championship back in 2013/14 I believe it was. Should you have been relegated back down? Hand back the PL title won when you shouldn't have been in the division? Leicester paid a fine only for that breach in rules, not even any points reduction. The rules either apply evenly or they don't apply at all.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

It doesn’t matter what Everton spent the money on, they broke the rules. If they were funding the stadium then they needed to cut back on the playing squad to keep within the rules.

So what if Forest realised after the season finished. Surely their finance team must have been keeping a tab on this.

What we have is two teams that stayed up at the expense of one that didn’t invest in order to comply with the FFP rules. The margin was miniscule, ie one goal scored or not conceded would have made the difference between staying up or relegation. Can you say categorically that if all three teams spent within the rules the positions would have remained unaltered? Of course you can’t.

It’s probably done Leicester some good to rebuild, but that’s not the point. Someone else has broken the rules and it’s cost us £100m and they have likely got away with what effectively amounts to a slap on the wrist.

What about when Leicester broke FFP rules

Didn’t the club make a deal with the EFL ?

Poisoned chalice I think.

Much like Moyes at United, whoever followed Wenger was always going to be under pressure to perform straight away.

His record at Arsenal wasn't even that bad, but the fans revolted and they moved on.

What's class is, he left there, picked himself back up and won more trophies elsewhere then came back to prove himself again in the prem.

Managed Arsenal is different to managing Villa - the expectations are massively different

Emery took over from potentially one of the best managers the Prem has seen and a team that was expected to be in the CL every year challenging for trophies

At Villa the expectations are different

Arsenal is a bigger club and Villa seems a good fit for him

Don’t expect the likes of Liverpool or City to look at Emery

 

[Bdill93]

What about when Leicester broke FFP rules

Didn’t the club make a deal with the EFL ?





Managed Arsenal is different to managing Villa - the expectations are massively different

Emery took over from potentially one of the best managers the Prem has seen and a team that was expected to be in the CL every year challenging for trophies

At Villa the expectations are different

Arsenal is a bigger club and Villa seems a good fit for him

Don’t expect the likes of Liverpool or City to look at Emery

I don't! I'm more than happy with him though! Best manager a side like Villa could ask for

 

[clubchamp98]

On the issue of FFP, there’s obviously been loads written and talked about Forest/Everton but it seems to me City doesn’t get talked about and speculated about as much. Seems like any sort of final decision is way off.

I haven’t really seen or heard any wild speculation and guesswork by City fans themselves either. Be interested to hear their take on it. So, any City fans, what’s the feeling? Are you worried? What do you think you’ll face and when? Do you think you’re going to face demotion to a lower league? Or do you essentially think it’s all a lot of hot water, that nothing much will stick and you’ll come out the other side relatively unaffected?

Ditto Chelsea, as there are rumblings about them as well.

Or, how do non City/Chelsea fans see it?

Given Everton have been through the independent appeal and still guilty and six points I think City should be worried.

If they ever get around to sorting it out.

Just pick one charge and file the others until later.

 

[Dando]

On the issue of FFP, there’s obviously been loads written and talked about Forest/Everton but it seems to me City doesn’t get talked about and speculated about as much. Seems like any sort of final decision is way off.

I haven’t really seen or heard any wild speculation and guesswork by City fans themselves either. Be interested to hear their take on it. So, any City fans, what’s the feeling? Are you worried? What do you think you’ll face and when? Do you think you’re going to face demotion to a lower league? Or do you essentially think it’s all a lot of hot water, that nothing much will stick and you’ll come out the other side relatively unaffected?

Ditto Chelsea, as there are rumblings about them as well.

Or, how do non City/Chelsea fans see it?

a guy at my course is a football agent and he's said that City are bricking it

 

[Swango1980]

On the issue of FFP, there’s obviously been loads written and talked about Forest/Everton but it seems to me City doesn’t get talked about and speculated about as much. Seems like any sort of final decision is way off.

I haven’t really seen or heard any wild speculation and guesswork by City fans themselves either. Be interested to hear their take on it. So, any City fans, what’s the feeling? Are you worried? What do you think you’ll face and when? Do you think you’re going to face demotion to a lower league? Or do you essentially think it’s all a lot of hot water, that nothing much will stick and you’ll come out the other side relatively unaffected?

Ditto Chelsea, as there are rumblings about them as well.

Or, how do non City/Chelsea fans see it?

They'll drag it out so long, and wait until the rules for FFP are so lenient, and then get charged with a slap on the wrist.

There is a part of me that thinks the PL would be scared to death in heavily penalising a Man City, Man Utd, Liverpool or Arsenal, due to the damage to the PL brand. However, they probably don't care a jot about Everton's or Forest's, and may actually see it as a good thing to penalise them so it sets an example to the other clubs, including the big ones.

Maybe I'm over cynical, but I just don't see a day coming where Man City or penalised so heavily they are relegated. At worst, they'll get a penalty that stops them competing for title, but easily keeps them in league, perhaps even pushing for top 6 or 7.

 

[Bdill93]

They'll drag it out so long, and wait until the rules for FFP are so lenient, and then get charged with a slap on the wrist.

There is a part of me that thinks the PL would be scared to death in heavily penalising a Man City, Man Utd, Liverpool or Arsenal, due to the damage to the PL brand. However, they probably don't care a jot about Everton's or Forest's, and may actually see it as a good thing to penalise them so it sets an example to the other clubs, including the big ones.

Maybe I'm over cynical, but I just don't see a day coming where Man City or penalised so heavily they are relegated. At worst, they'll get a penalty that stops them competing for title, but easily keeps them in league, perhaps even pushing for top 6 or 7.

Id do 2 things to city

1) Transfer ban for 4 windows
2) 3 years of starting the league on -20 points

No chance of a league win, little chance of CL football, no ability to sign players - that's punishment.

 

[Dando]

Id do 2 things to city

1) Transfer ban for 4 windows
2) 3 years of starting the league on -20 points

No chance of a league win, little chance of CL football, no ability to sign players - that's punishment.

can i add a 3rd - make them read the LIV thread

 

[Swango1980]

See Pep has come out, essentially criticizing Grealish's performances, and that he'll get back in the side when he improves.

I do wonder how much Grealish's headline partying antics frustrated and angered Pep over the summer? And / Or I wonder how much they might have had a detrimental impact on his performances this season. Probably make no difference playing at lower levels, but at the very top level where they're always on about marginal gains, I wonder if all that partying has left him a bit heavy legged (even a 1% drop, he'd be an athletic God compared to most of us still)

 

[Bdill93]

See Pep has come out, essentially criticizing Grealish's performances, and that he'll get back in the side when he improves.

I do wonder how much Grealish's headline partying antics frustrated and angered Pep over the summer? And / Or I wonder how much they might have had a detrimental impact on his performances this season. Probably make no difference playing at lower levels, but at the very top level where they're always on about marginal gains, I wonder if all that partying has left him a bit heavy legged (even a 1% drop, he'd be an athletic God compared to most of us still)

I'm sure plenty of players cut loose over the summer, the big difference is Jack does it publicly.

He's a pro though, he learned his lessons from early in his career and he applies himself during the offseason to keep fit etc too, a 2 week partying binge wont effect him 2 weeks later.

Interestingly if they want to recoup any of the 100m paid for him, this summer is probably the best opportunity to do that too, he's 29 in September

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Id do 2 things to city

1) Transfer ban for 4 windows
2) 3 years of starting the league on -20 points

No chance of a league win, little chance of CL football, no ability to sign players - that's punishment.

That doesn’t punish them for the period where they were breaking the rules

Any league titles during the period they won should be removed ( and no not given to second place )

Add onto multiple points reductions

And relegate them

If the charges are proven it amounts to financial cheating - the punishment must be fitting

 

[HomerJSimpson]

They'll drag it out so long, and wait until the rules for FFP are so lenient, and then get charged with a slap on the wrist.

There is a part of me that thinks the PL would be scared to death in heavily penalising a Man City, Man Utd, Liverpool or Arsenal, due to the damage to the PL brand. However, they probably don't care a jot about Everton's or Forest's, and may actually see it as a good thing to penalise them so it sets an example to the other clubs, including the big ones.

Maybe I'm over cynical, but I just don't see a day coming where Man City or penalised so heavily they are relegated. At worst, they'll get a penalty that stops them competing for title, but easily keeps them in league, perhaps even pushing for top 6 or 7.

Haven't Barca and Real been through similar FPP processes and has that damaged the La Liga brand? Granted it is not as global as the PL but there is still a reasonable demand for it especially around the big teams. I don't know is my point hence the question

 

[Bdill93]

That doesn’t punish them for the period where they were breaking the rules

Any league titles during the period they won should be removed ( and no not given to second place )

Add onto multiple points reductions

And relegate them

If the charges are proven it amounts to financial cheating - the punishment must be fitting

Removing trophies etc is just a bit hard to actually quantify unless you recalculate the whole table removing the city fixtures across the board entirely.

That could also lead to differences in relegations etc.

I cant see them removing trophies, their name is already on the things..

Straight relegation also doesn't achieve much, they'll just come back, I think 3 seasons of -20 hurts them more.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Removing trophies etc is just a bit hard to actually quantify unless you recalculate the whole table removing the city fixtures across the board entirely.

That could also lead to differences in relegations etc.

I cant see them removing trophies, their name is already on the things..

Straight relegation also doesn't achieve much, they'll just come back, I think 3 seasons of -20 hurts them more.

That doesn’t hurt them at all

If proven they cheated then just as what happened in Italy , the trophies removed , you don’t need to do anything else in regards giving to someone else or sorting out relegation etc

It doesn’t take much to take names off

And relegation down a number of leagues will hurt them

If the charges are as severe as it looks then it needs to be a strong punishment

 

[fundy]

Haven't Barca and Real been through similar FPP processes and has that damaged the La Liga brand? Granted it is not as global as the PL but there is still a reasonable demand for it especially around the big teams. I don't know is my point hence the question

Its done very differently in Spain where the clubs are set a budget for the following season based on their current financial position and this then gets updated when they make transfers and the league can basically stop them actually registering new signings and thus being able to play them as has happened to Barca lately. In effect this should mean that clubs cant spend beyond their means and thus goes bust but is fast turning a 2 club dominated league into a 1 club dominated.

From a financial perspective, because of the utter shambles Barca have become financially and comparably how well run Madrid are the salary caps make it very hard to see how anyone can compete with Madrid at all (especially as they appear to have the headroom to add MBappe to their collection) Madrid have a cap of over 700m, Athetico next at just under 300m and Barca at 270m. The clubs at the bottom the limit is 30m!!!

So Madrid are allowed to spend more than double anyone else and more than 20 times the bottom club

and next years Barcas cap goes down to 200m!

 

[Swango1980]

Haven't Barca and Real been through similar FPP processes and has that damaged the La Liga brand? Granted it is not as global as the PL but there is still a reasonable demand for it especially around the big teams. I don't know is my point hence the question

I don't know. To me, La Liga is nothing like it was a decade ago, just like Serie A is nothing like it was in the 90's.

My perception is that La Liga brand has declined (or not grown as rapidly as football has grown over the same period), whereas Premier League has gone in the other direction. I'm not sure whether the fact Sky was no longer interested in the rights to Spanish football indicate where they are? This might just be me though, there may be stats out there that say La Liga has had massive growth and is now massive in other parts of the world