I think Everton are equally confused, hence why they have been caught out. Their argument all along has been that take out the stadium costs and the numbers are fine. They are reading the rules one way, the PL are reading them another.
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Deleted member 15344
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We also had around £260mil in debt from the stand rebuilds at one point , obviously Man Utd were £500mil in debt ,
I know Everton did spend a fair whack under Silva then Ancelotti but if it’s stadium costs then I’m not sure why they have been punished and then charged again - it’s seems very simple
Unless the clubs transfers have broken FFP but surely they will have the documents etc to prove it all.
The integrity of the Premier Lge sustainability laws is already a bit of a laughing stock with City’s 115 charges - if they have made a mess of Everton’s charges it’s going to cause chaos
fundy
Ryder Cup Winner
Not totally certain but I think its linked to the timing of costs, any costs prior to either planning or starting to build cant be excluded but Everton were excluding them when accounts were submitted. Part of the problem is that we are only given snippets not seeing the full accounts, surely getting to the point where all 20 clubs accounts need to be published so that there is full transparency on what is and isnt being included and thus whats causing any breaches.
One things for sure, being deducted points twice in the same season for 2 different season breaches feels completely unfair, theres also a feeling that if its a rolling 3 year set of accounts you could be charged 2 or 3 times for effectively the same overspend
Edit: Its also been inferred the real cause for their overspend, at least historically is how high their wages to turnover ratio is
Are you talking about new stadium costs, in which case it’s a one off expenditure. However, I thought a big aspect of sustainability was to make sure clubs don’t go under. Total expenditure impacts on that, irrespective of what it’s spent on.
According to a piece in the Echo, Everton's net transfer spend over the last 3 seasons is £6.38m. In PL terms that is pretty remarkable in how low it is. The troubles relate to past payouts, wages, old contracts and the like. Basically, historical issues, not current ones. Our house is largely in order now.
Interestingly enough, the rules relating to FFP change at the end of this season. We may fail them this year but pass them with the same accounts next year
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Interestingly enough, the rules relating to FFP change at the end of this season. We may fail them this year but pass them with the same accounts next year
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According to a piece in the Echo, Everton's net transfer spend over the last 3 seasons is £6.38m. In PL terms that is pretty remarkable in how low it is. The troubles relate to past payouts, wages, old contracts and the like. Basically, historical issues, not current ones. Our house is largely in order now.
Interestingly enough, the rules relating to FFP change at the end of this season. We may fail them this year but pass them with the same accounts next year
I thought transfer fees were amortised over several seasons…
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Deleted member 15344
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That’s prob why when we were sailing close to the wind it was down to the project costs and plans for a new stadium ( under the old owners )
Clubs can deduct cash spent on stadium infrastructure, academy costs, their women’s teams and, until last season, the impact of the pandemic.
This was lifted from an explanation about FFP
fundy
Ryder Cup Winner
This is the problem, people use statistics which whilst they offer some information are not the required numbers. Tfr fees are amortised over a number of seasons, players when sold are accounted for at sale price less book value (hence the rush to sell academy players who have no book value)
Theres a lot of smoke and mirrors going on hence why the City situation is taking years and years to even be assessed...................
They are, hence Chelsea putting players on 8yr contracts (that loophole has now been closed).
Over the 3 yr period, that is our net spend still. I'm guessing payments in, Anthony Gordon to Newcastle for example, are equally amortised so it balances out.
fundy
Ryder Cup Winner
Theyre not, they are accounted for fully in the year they are sold at transfer income minus any book vale (original price paid less amortisation in simple terms)
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Deleted member 15344
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How does it work when you have spurs for example who took out loans of £1bn to spend on building the new stadium and that debt is currently against the club - the £1bn spend wasn’t put on the club for FFP purposes for example
They are - it was a loophole that Chelsea used for spend £1bn with the costs amortised over the length of the contract- hence why they have players on 10 year contracts - a loophole they are closing but also it could leave Chelsea with a lot of dead weight
But believe the transfer cost is on the accounts from the start
Swango1980
Well-known member
The Sancho issue, in my opinion, has been dealt with well by ten Hag. Before Utd brought a new manager in, the general comments were that the new manager would have to deal with player power. That is exactly what he has done, with several players. But the issues run deep. During the last world cup, he sent Sancho to the Netherlands to try and get sorted. Undoubtedly he has tried to sort Sancho out behind the scenes for a long long time. But, it has clearly been a lost cause. So, I think he dealt with it perfectly. Took him out of the side, and didn't lie to the media by pretending he was injured. Good riddance to Sancho. And, with Maguire, he was happy to sell him, just like nearly every Utd and non Utd fan thought he should do. But, Maguire didn't want to leave in the end, hence the last minute decision to stay and not go to West Ham. Yet, we've never heard Maguire complain, and when he has come back into the side he has done very well. So how has ten Hag dealt with that badly??
Of course, I won't sit here and say he gets 10/10. Although not even Klopp or Pep are 10/10, though Pep is pretty close to it. He will inevitably make some mistakes, where in hindsight he may have done things differently. And I'm sure Sir Alex would be the same. I'm not sure Ferguson would rush to sign a player like Bebe again, and maybe he'd elect not to sell Jaap Stam as quickly as he did.
fundy
Ryder Cup Winner
If you ever want to read a breakdown of a clubs accounts after they are filed, Swiss Ramble on twitter is excellent and well worth following. Newcastles last set for example
I would hazard a guess, and it is only a guess, that the expenditure would show as the monthly payments on the loan. In effect, they’ve not spent £1bn the loan company has, and they’re paying back the loan company.
Swango1980
Well-known member
If at least 8 or 9 of the following were consistently fit, and had time to work together, I think Utd could be competitive in the Top 4:
Onana, Wan Bissaka, Varane, Martinez, Shaw, Casemiro, Mainoo, Bruno, Garnacho, Rashford(????), Hojlund.
Slotting in 1 or 2 players into a steady team, like Antony, Mount, Eriksen, Maguire, Dalot, etc wouldn't be disastrous.
Of course, that still doesn't put them anywhere near the best team in the PL. I could say we need wide players who are comfortable in possession and not selfish, willing to pass and move, etc. But even if that happens, then the likes of Casemiro and Varane aren't getting any younger. Things have got so poor, that Ratcliffe and his team might feel a bit like they are chasing their own tail for a while.
Tashyboy
Please don’t ask to see my tatts 👍
FFP Moving the goalposts.According to a piece in the Echo, Everton's net transfer spend over the last 3 seasons is £6.38m. In PL terms that is pretty remarkable in how low it is. The troubles relate to past payouts, wages, old contracts and the like. Basically, historical issues, not current ones. Our house is largely in order now.
Interestingly enough, the rules relating to FFP change at the end of this season. We may fail them this year but pass them with the same accounts next year
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Deleted member 15344
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Think what it does show is what a minefield it is and there is a reason why club hire very expensive lawyers and accountants to wade through the red tape and find any loophole possible to allow them to spend more
When you look at how Spurs have recovered so quickly from the Mourinho and Conte eras, Utd will not be far behind if you have the right set up. Get the right manager, a couple of signings and whilst you wont be winning the league, you will be back amongst the top 4 quite quickly. I'm not seeing anything in ETH that suggests he is the right man, you need to find your own Ange
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Deleted member 15344
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When you look at how Spurs have recovered so quickly from the Mourinho and Conte eras, Utd will not be far behind if you have the right set up. Get the right manager, a couple of signings and whilst you wont be winning the league, you will be back amongst the top 4 quite quickly. I'm not seeing anything in ETH that suggests he is the right man, you need to find your own Ange
Which is something that Redknapp was saying ( the guys talks nonsense most of the time ) - Spurs in 4 months got an identity , a style of play and the right players - ETH is 18 months into that and still nowhere near seeing what style of play he wants or having some sort of identity- the better managers come in and put their style and identity into a club , and not just the likes of Klopp and Pepe but Emery , De Zerbi , even the likes if O Neill and Iraola have come in and put their stamp on things using the players with their disposal
I suspect ask any Man Utd fan and they wouldn’t even know what ETH style is , what is there identity, what is he trying to do -
