The Footie Thread

[Deleted member 15344]

How does that change then. Crowds may get bigger, transfer fees may go up but the players are not going to get more elite, you will not get anyone with a better record than taking teams to the last 4 finals of competitions she was managing in so when does it become the right time or are women going to be barred from entering management in the men's game forever.

What’s her record at club level ?


She is doing well at the level of Ladies Football but that’s a level significantly lower than men’s football at the moment- even the level of pressure isn’t anywhere near the same

 

[DPapas1982]

Not likely but if she was offered a job at a premier League club do you think that the fa could be seen to stand in the way if such an historic moment

Not just historic, butnlucrative for her too. I'm sure she'd bounce if she could increase her wages four fold.

 

[Swango1980]

How does that change then. Crowds may get bigger, transfer fees may go up but the players are not going to get more elite, you will not get anyone with a better record than taking teams to the last 4 finals of competitions she was managing in so when does it become the right time or are women going to be barred from entering management in the men's game forever.

The sad reality is, managers aren't just there to sort out the tactics. They are there to manage people, manage over 20 egos of young men (well paid men at top level). They will require a certain authority, charisma, etc about them, especially when things go wrong or players get dropped.

That is going to be very difficult for a woman, especially at the highest, most public level. It would be great to have a team of 30 "modern" men, but it is unlikely. There are bound to be players who are just sexist, maybe they come from cultures that makes them very sexist? It could make things much more difficult for a woman coach.

It is probably the sad reality. Not saying a female couldn't be a brilliant tactician or even a great motivated or have charisma. But it is a big risk for any club or national side to take. And if things aren't amazing, there will be all sorts of accusations about it being a gimmick. I mean, look at the criticism some female pundits get, especially in the early days.

 

[GB72]

What’s her record at club level ?


She is doing well at the level of Ladies Football but that’s a level significantly lower than men’s football at the moment- even the level of pressure isn’t anywhere near the same

The original point was stepping into southgates role so the club experience is less, but not totally irrelevant (Southgate did not have a stellar club career). Age to s managing the highest level she can and so there has to be a transferable skill of elite management. Plenty of make managers deal with lower levels of player but that does not mean they cannot step up. How do you prove you can manage at a higher level until you are given the chance.

The point nade by Swango is one I can see, prejudice is probably the biggest issue

 

[Deleted member 15344]

The original point was stepping into southgates role so the club experience is less, but not totally irrelevant (Southgate did not have a stellar club career). Age to s managing the highest level she can and so there has to be a transferable skill of elite management. Plenty of make managers deal with lower levels of player but that does not mean they cannot step up. How do you prove you can manage at a higher level until you are given the chance.

The point nade by Swango is one I can see, prejudice is probably the biggest issue

Southgate got the role on a temp basis from being involved in the youth set up but he still had 3 years as a Premier league manager so had the experience of dealing with top level players

Any women will have to show they can manage at even the lowest level of men’s football and managing Women’s football isn’t showing that

Maybe they need to work through the levels by starting at mens academy level or into U21 level and then Lge 2 etc

But there is zero chance that a women will be given any men’s international team at the high level and also at a club level - and not just because of prejudices

 

[GB72]

Southgate got the role on a temp basis from being involved in the youth set up but he still had 3 years as a Premier league manager so had the experience of dealing with top level players

Any women will have to show they can manage at even the lowest level of men’s football and managing Women’s football isn’t showing that

Maybe they need to work through the levels by starting at mens academy level or into U21 level and then Lge 2 etc

But there is zero chance that a women will be given any men’s international team at the high level and also at a club level - and not just because of prejudices

You do realise how patronising that sounds when talking about a potentially world cup winning coach. Nice job love, let's see if we can find you something in league 2 or with the kids. Under 21 international level is reasonable but below that is insulting.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

You do realise how patronising that sounds when talking about a potentially world cup winning coach. Nice job love, let's see if we can find you something in league 2 or with the kids. Under 21 international level is reasonable but below that is insulting.

How is it patronising - it’s just reality of the sport

It’s two massively different levels of the sport - the women’s game isn’t anywhere near the top level of the men’s game

Many men have to prove themselves to get a top job within the men’s game by going through the levels

Pep first role as a manager within the reserve team at Barcelona

If a women wants to move into management in the men’s game then why shouldn’t the follow the same path

 

[GB72]

How is it patronising - it’s just reality of the sport

It’s two massively different levels of the sport - the women’s game isn’t anywhere near the top level of the men’s game

Many men have to prove themselves to get a top job within the men’s game by going through the levels

Pep first role as a manager within the reserve team at Barcelona

If a women wants to move into management in the men’s game then why shouldn’t the follow the same path

Because Pep had not won international honours with a team. Can many up and coming coaches claim that. Seems like a reasonable thing to have on your resume. How many men ex players walk into jobs with next to no management experience at the level they enter the game.I assume (and I am willing to agree an issue exists if I am wrong) but I assume she has or can get the same coaching badges as a male coach so is as qualified. If not, why not

That said, a job running the reserves at a top 4 premier League club would seem a reasonable option.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Because Pep had not won international honours with a team. Can many up and coming coaches claim that. Seems like a reasonable thing to have on your resume. How many men ex players walk into jobs with next to no management experience at the level they enter the game.I assume (and I am willing to agree an issue exists if I am wrong) but I assume she has or can get the same coaching badges as a male coach so is as qualified. If not, why not

That said, a job running the reserves at a top 4 premier League club would seem a reasonable option.

How much experience has she got of the men’s game ? None as far as I’m aware and the reality is the game is vastly different in many areas

 

[GB72]

How much experience has she got of the men’s game ? None as far as I’m aware and the reality is the game is vastly different in many areas

How do you know that the skills attained from managing elite level women's sport does not translate directly to the men's game. Just an assumption. How do you gain elite level men's experience without a job.

As an example, Gerrard had one year of under 18s managerial experience before going to Rangers. Surely Wiegmann has higher levels of experience than that so a job at a big club would not seem unreasonable

 

[Deleted member 15344]

How do you know that the skills attained from managing elite level women's sport does not translate directly to the men's game. Just an assumption. How do you gain elite level men's experience without a job.

As an example, Gerrard had one year of under 18s managerial experience before going to Rangers. Surely Wiegmann has higher levels of experience than that so a job at a big club would not seem unreasonable

Again she has to prove that it does by building up from the lower levels

Gerrard had 20 plus years playing and being around some of the best players and managers in the game and even he started off at an Academy Level

Weigmann has no experience or managing or coaching any level of men’s football so will have to prove that she can manage or coach within the men’s game - and you don’t get to prove that at the elite level as a first stepping stone

 

[Swango1980]

How is it patronising - it’s just reality of the sport

It’s two massively different levels of the sport - the women’s game isn’t anywhere near the top level of the men’s game

Many men have to prove themselves to get a top job within the men’s game by going through the levels

Pep first role as a manager within the reserve team at Barcelona

If a women wants to move into management in the men’s game then why shouldn’t the follow the same path

Gerrard and Lampard didn't have to spend too much time going through the levels? Ole didn't have to progress through a lot of levels before jumping into Man Utd.

But, it is true that it would be difficult to judge just how a coach in a female side would get on in a men's side. Not just because of difficulties I mentioned before. Another is that male players may give more respect to a manager who has been in their shoes, and a male manager more understanding.

The other issue is, what are the differences between men's and women's game? I've really enjoyed watch the England ladies, but would it become more difficult if the men's game was much quicker, if opponents were much more aggressive, if players had less time on the ball. Would that have an impact on tactics that England ladies would have been using? She'd be a million miles better than me at managing England men, no doubt. But would her CV easily show she could do it at elite level in men's game? Would a coach of a schoolboys football team be perfect fit for England manager if they happened to win all their local.games with superior tactics? It just seems a big jump, before even thinking of the role of discrimination.

And if she did get the job, we'd be hearing from Sol Campbell again

 

[GB72]

They are all fair points but this barrier has to be crossed and I cannot see a better candidate coming about any time soon.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

They are all fair points but this barrier has to be crossed and I cannot see a better candidate coming about any time soon.

Why does the barrier have to be crossed though ?

 

[GB72]

Why does the barrier have to be crossed though ?

Because women play and manage football so to not encourage their progression to the highest positions in the game is prejudicial.

Your view is that women should not manage men's teams. Interesting

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Because women play and manage football so to not encourage their progression to the highest positions in the game is prejudicial.

Your view is that women should not manage men's teams. Interesting

When did I say they “should not manage men’s teams” ?

It’s not a barrier that “has to be crossed”

It’s a barrier that is crossed if someone proves they have the ability to cross the barrier

And when it comes to the club level - there are other candidates behind Weigamn

 

[Swango1980]

They are all fair points but this barrier has to be crossed and I cannot see a better candidate coming about any time soon.

If the barrier needs to be crossed, then there needs to be significant interest from women to manage mens teams.

Realistically, how many male managers are there competing for managing slots in the men's professional game? Hundreds maybe? How many females are putting their names out there, and showing a interest in men's game? Are there any? If a top slot was simply given to a woman, it would simply appear to be a publicity stunt to many. A token gesture, and even if she had done an immense job in the ladies game, she'd be starting on the back foot immediately. When that position became available, would it still be viable to award her the role of England manager, even if there were a few exciting male prospects doing well in PL. Would fans be happy to give it to her so the barrier is crossed, even if Eddie Howe was hopeful of a chance?

I suspect the main focus now is to continue to grow the ladies game. Get more young girls interested in football. If it continues to grow, we could be much further down the line in a generation

 

[GB72]

When did I say they “should not manage men’s teams” ?

It’s not a barrier that “has to be crossed”

It’s a barrier that is crossed if someone proves they have the ability to cross the barrier

And when it comes to the club level - there are other candidates behind Weigamn

The barrier we were talking about was women managing men's teams and you asked why that barrier had to be crossed. That is a pretty clear statement that women should not cross the barrier into men's football but decent backtrack.

Give someone a chance and we will see if they have the skill. Plenty of men with less managerial experience have been given a shot.Hiw can you prove your ability if you do not get given a chance.

 

[nickjdavis]

Again she has to prove that it does by building up from the lower levels

Gerrard had 20 plus years playing and being around some of the best players and managers in the game and even he started off at an Academy Level

Weigmann has no experience or managing or coaching any level of men’s football so will have to prove that she can manage or coach within the men’s game - and you don’t get to prove that at the elite level as a first stepping stone

She was assistant manager at Sparta Rotterdam for a brief time at the end of 2016.

 

[GB72]

If the barrier needs to be crossed, then there needs to be significant interest from women to manage mens teams.

Realistically, how many male managers are there competing for managing slots in the men's professional game? Hundreds maybe? How many females are putting their names out there, and showing a interest in men's game? Are there any? If a top slot was simply given to a woman, it would simply appear to be a publicity stunt to many. A token gesture, and even if she had done an immense job in the ladies game, she'd be starting on the back foot immediately. When that position became available, would it still be viable to award her the role of England manager, even if there were a few exciting male prospects doing well in PL. Would fans be happy to give it to her so the barrier is crossed, even if Eddie Howe was hopeful of a chance?

I suspect the main focus now is to continue to grow the ladies game. Get more young girls interested in football. If it continues to grow, we could be much further down the line in a generation

Lot of good points but it takes the courage of one club to take the chance and one woman to take it to show it can be done and one woman to make a success of it to encourage more. Takes one club and one manager to be pioneers and start the ball rolling.