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The Footie Thread

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Foxholer said:
I'm always a bit torn when admiring G'keepers so highly. It so often reflects badly on the rest of the team - agreed, Ronaldo aside. Great to see occasional feats of brilliance; just not having to see it constantly! :rolleyes:
Peter Schmeichel (ex step-son's hero) certainly didn't hold back if he felt the guys ahead of him had underperformed to put his goal in jeapardy!
Click to expand...
Correct. Good though he is it's the sort of stats that normally make a someone look like a decent shotstopper at the bottom end of the table.

https://fbref.com/en/comps/9/keepers/Premier-League-Stats - just went here and sorted by 'shots on target against'. United 4th highest! Only below Leeds, Norwich & Brentford. Says it all.
 
Swango1980 said:
Well found (back on Page 762), must have taken a while. It also helps ME put into context why I said that, back in Sep 21 (I assumed you were referring to a post further into the season, rather than near the very start). Sure, close to the best PL in Premier League history was probably overstating my point, although the point I was making was, on paper at the time, we had great talent. We finished second the year before, and with the additions we had, felt we should be challenging at the top against two of the other teams who'd consider themselves amongst the best. That was my opinion at the time, and I was using it to vent my frustration at Ole (who most would agree, probably not the best manager in the world).

However, once RR arrived, it has now become blindingly obvious what a let down these players are. I never predicted that the likes of Maguire, Wan Bissaka, Bruno, Rashford and many others would experience horrific losses of form and confidence, that Greenwood would do what he supposedly did and that pretty much all the players would simply give up, and not bother running. Now, maybe they just cannot pick themselves up for RR either (no excuse) and they'd be a killer team under Klopp or Pep, but I will no longer give them that amount of credit. Not even close. There may be a lot of rubbish going on behind the scenes that we don't know about, I just can't get my head around the fact a whole team of players seem completely disinterested

So yes, fair enough, it very much looks like I was wrong about this squad of players. Although, to be fair, I have not held back since that post, and have now been immensely critical of the same squad of players. A fairly similar squad who could suddenly play good football when Ole first arrived simply because it looked like they could be bothered, then gave up when he signed his permanent deal, had intermittent decent performances for a while, and then have become the utter embarrassment that they are now. It probably highlights well that talent (which they've pretty much all shown in the past) goes absolutely nowhere if the mentality is poor.

P.S. I was excited when Ronaldo came back, his debut was possibly one of the most exciting times I've had as a Utd fan, and I'm glad he did as him and DeGea are about the only good highlights to come from this season.
Click to expand...

About 2minutes actually. Raspers like that stay in the memory bank??

You said what you did because you 100% believed it. We all have blind faith in our clubs at times, you're not alone. Though some of us arent as deluded as you?

I dont think they'd be much better under Pep or Klopp. They still wouldnt break into the current top 3 because theyre not as good as people think. The perception is they play for yernited they must be great players, they're not.

Remember, form is temporary, class is permanent.

EtH has got an enormous job on his hands, it doesnt matter how much gets spent, he needs 3yrs minimum in that job.
 
Foxholer said:
I'm always a bit torn when admiring G'keepers so highly. It so often reflects badly on the rest of the team - agreed, Ronaldo aside. Great to see occasional feats of brilliance; just not having to see it constantly! :rolleyes:
Peter Schmeichel (ex step-son's hero) certainly didn't hold back if he felt the guys ahead of him had underperformed to put his goal in jeapardy!
Click to expand...
Agreed to a point, yes. Some lower team goalkeepers often get a lot of praise, but they often get a lot of practice, and a lot of opportunities to shine. Doesn't mean they'd be a great keeper in a top of the league side.

However, I can only praise DeGea for what he has had to do this season. He is certainly no Peter Schmeichel though. He'd have torn the defenders to shreds a long time ago.
 
Stuart_C said:
About 2minutes actually. Raspers like that stay in the memory bank??

You said what you did because you 100% believed it. We all have blind faith in our clubs at times, you're not alone. Though some of us arent as deluded as you?

I dont think they'd be much better under Pep or Klopp. They still wouldnt break into the current top 3 because theyre not as good as people think. The perception is they play for yernited they must be great players, they're not.

Remember, form is temporary, class is permanent.

EtH has got an enormous job on his hands, it doesnt matter how much gets spent, he needs 3yrs minimum in that job.
Click to expand...
I agree with your final points. And, now that we have removed the Ole equation, the players have been left exposed as to what they are.

I certainly don't have blind faith, I have been as about as scathing towards them for a long time. However, many of the players have shown glimpses of quality in the past. Maguire was never anywhere near VVD, but showed good performances before Utd, and for England. Even the Utd team had put on great performances when their confidence and effort levels were high. They are not fighting for anything now, and Maguire and Bruno pretty much admitted it. I never believed a group footballers could be so unprofessional or weak minded. Maybe just the odd individual. Looks like I was very wrong about that.

3 years minimum, yes. Even if all goes well, could be more. First year to generally get rid of the weeds and see what we end up with. Second to bring in more fresh players to compensate for our most weak areas. Third the same, and build confidence. But, can't see us competing then unless Liverpool and City have declined.

You never know though, next September I may think we have the greatest ever squad, especially if we sign Danny Welbeck :)
 
Swango1980 said:
As a Utd fan, personally I WOULD accept a period of rebuild.

Watching Utd this season has been horrific, unless we play against Leeds. The players find it impossible to control a game against anyone, it is frightening. As someone already pointed out, I am shocked Utd are even as high as they are in the league. Once ten Hag comes in, I will be more interested in his approach to build things up. I certainly won't expect Utd to come flying out of the traps, playing beautiful football and directly challenging for the title. Not even close to expecting that.

Utd will be losing quite a few players anyway due to contracts running out. He'll need to find out which remaining players have a chance of being part of a successful rebuild, and the ones that are either broken beyond repair, or whose attitude isn't right. And get rid. Then find the players to bring in. It seems that a lot more needs to change than just the manager. The coaching set-up probably needs a complete change, and the scouting.

The worry is that ten Hag comes in, but everything else behind the scenes remains broken and he really does have the impossible job.
Click to expand...
wtf have they been doing for the last decade and spending just under a £1bn in the process ?
 
Swango1980 said:
I agree with your final points. And, now that we have removed the Ole equation, the players have been left exposed as to what they are.

I certainly don't have blind faith, I have been as about as scathing towards them for a long time. However, many of the players have shown glimpses of quality in the past. Maguire was never anywhere near VVD, but showed good performances before Utd, and for England. Even the Utd team had put on great performances when their confidence and effort levels were high. They are not fighting for anything now, and Maguire and Bruno pretty much admitted it. I never believed a group footballers could be so unprofessional or weak minded. Maybe just the odd individual. Looks like I was very wrong about that.

3 years minimum, yes. Even if all goes well, could be more. First year to generally get rid of the weeds and see what we end up with. Second to bring in more fresh players to compensate for our most weak areas. Third the same, and build confidence. But, can't see us competing then unless Liverpool and City have declined.

You never know though, next September I may think we have the greatest ever squad, especially if we sign Danny Welbeck :)
Click to expand...

Its amazing what changes in 6 months??

For me Maguire is overrated. His level is Leicester and thats with no disrespect.

Lingard showed his level too at West ham again with no disrespect.

McTominay couldn't lace Henderson's boots and im not Henderson's biggest fan but i appreciate what he gives.

Fernandes is a MOTD show pony.

Dont worry about catching us or City, if City keep buying the way they do the PL will become the same as the Bundesliga.

It takes a lot more than 1 year to get rid of the weeds. Whose buying them at any sort of decent money?
 
Billysboots said:
Spending money doesn’t equate to rebuilding, Phil. It equates to spending money. A rebuild needs a cohesive plan as to where the entire club is heading.
Click to expand...

Surely you spend money to rebuild a club - they got rid of lots of players , brought loads in to rebuild a team ?

It’s a rebuild - and it’s gone on for a decade now so far - bringing in Den Haag is the start of another rebuild
 
Liverpoolphil said:
wtf have they been doing for the last decade and spending just under a £1bn in the process ?
Click to expand...
The question was would United fans accept a period to rebuild the side. I'm assuming in comparison to the alternative to almost instant success and beautiful football.

So, my answer was I would accept a period to rebuild. Surely that seems a fairly understandable answer? I didn't say it would be a successful rebuild, just like the last 10 years. I simply said I would be happy to give it a chance, and hope we see some good solid progress within 2 to 3 years.
 
Liverpoolphil said:
Surely you spend money to rebuild a club - they got rid of lots of players , brought loads in to rebuild a team ?

It’s a rebuild - and it’s gone on for a decade now so far - bringing in Den Haag is the start of another rebuild
Click to expand...

You can only rebuild a house successfully if you have solid foundations. United’s foundations started to crumble before Ferguson left and have been largely ignored ever since. What they have been doing for over a decade is throwing money at the problem, not rebuilding.
 
Swango1980 said:
Well found (back on Page 762), must have taken a while. It also helps ME put into context why I said that, back in Sep 21 (I assumed you were referring to a post further into the season, rather than near the very start). Sure, close to the best PL in Premier League history was probably overstating my point, although the point I was making was, on paper at the time, we had great talent. We finished second the year before, and with the additions we had, felt we should be challenging at the top against two of the other teams who'd consider themselves amongst the best. That was my opinion at the time, and I was using it to vent my frustration at Ole (who most would agree, probably not the best manager in the world).

However, once RR arrived, it has now become blindingly obvious what a let down these players are. I never predicted that the likes of Maguire, Wan Bissaka, Bruno, Rashford and many others would experience horrific losses of form and confidence, that Greenwood would do what he supposedly did and that pretty much all the players would simply give up, and not bother running. Now, maybe they just cannot pick themselves up for RR either (no excuse) and they'd be a killer team under Klopp or Pep, but I will no longer give them that amount of credit. Not even close. There may be a lot of rubbish going on behind the scenes that we don't know about, I just can't get my head around the fact a whole team of players seem completely disinterested

So yes, fair enough, it very much looks like I was wrong about this squad of players. Although, to be fair, I have not held back since that post, and have now been immensely critical of the same squad of players. A fairly similar squad who could suddenly play good football when Ole first arrived simply because it looked like they could be bothered, then gave up when he signed his permanent deal, had intermittent decent performances for a while, and then have become the utter embarrassment that they are now. It probably highlights well that talent (which they've pretty much all shown in the past) goes absolutely nowhere if the mentality is poor.

P.S. I was excited when Ronaldo came back, his debut was possibly one of the most exciting times I've had as a Utd fan, and I'm glad he did as him and DeGea are about the only good highlights to come from this season.
Click to expand...

Beep, beep, beep.....opinion reversing......beep,beeep,beeeeeeepppppppp:cool:

As stuey said we've all been guilty of pre or early season optimism. Our fans felt for years that a certain 1 or 2 signings were the final pieces of the jigsaw and despite it being peddled every year by man U fans we didnt often say "this is our year".

Lets face it a good number of you thought:-

Varane and mcGuire will be our great partnership for the next 4-5 years
AWB is the best right back in the league
We have a great defence.....probably the best. :D:D
Ronaldo will get 40-50 goals
Sancho will get 15-25 and set up the same
Bruno will score and assist even more than he had already
Pogba will finally turn the 1 in 10 form into 8 in 10
Henderson/De gea will spur each other on

Whereas

Varane seems AWOL, Mcguire is on the MOTD highlights every week but for bad reasons
AWB, now stands for Any (W)One But in a lot of man U fans eyes now
Great defence - how is that goal difference going?
Ronaldo has held his own up at times, but have United lost even more with him in the team?
Sancho - frozen out virtually, played out of position. I would definitely not write him off, but he needs to be picked back off, dusted off then go again next season.
Bruno - I dont think the stats was his true self in his first year due to the unbelievable amount of pens you got. The last 6 months are also not a true reflection of him, but he needs to be more consistent again and stop the childish strop body language and get on with his game.
Pogba - best rid.
I think man u are at a crossroads with regards to their keeper.

As Mike Tyson said, everyone has a plan until they're punched in the face.

Man u should have had more than enough to finish above Spurs, Arsenal and West ham, and if half of the optimistic points above would have happened been in and around Chelsea, but when a few things have gone wrong, the lack of leadership, togetherness and bloody well fight has seen even more go wrong, than less.
 
SKY BREAKING NEWS …
Manchester United can confirm that following a scan - Paul Pogba has suffered a badly twisted sock and will miss the rest of the season.
He may fly out to Dubai or the USA to get it ironed out.
 
Tashyboy said:
SKY BREAKING NEWS …
Manchester United can confirm that following a scan - Paul Pogba has suffered a badly twisted sock and will miss the rest of the season.
He may fly out to Dubai or the USA to get it ironed out.
Click to expand...

?

In all seriousness, it wouldn’t bother me if he never pulled on a United shirt again.
 
Liverbirdie said:
Beep, beep, beep.....opinion reversing......beep,beeep,beeeeeeepppppppp:cool:

As stuey said we've all been guilty of pre or early season optimism. Our fans felt for years that a certain 1 or 2 signings were the final pieces of the jigsaw and despite it being peddled every year by man U fans we didnt often say "this is our year".

Lets face it a good number of you thought:-

Varane and mcGuire will be our great partnership for the next 4-5 years
AWB is the best right back in the league
We have a great defence.....probably the best. :D:D
Ronaldo will get 40-50 goals
Sancho will get 15-25 and set up the same
Bruno will score and assist even more than he had already
Pogba will finally turn the 1 in 10 form into 8 in 10
Henderson/De gea will spur each other on

Whereas

Varane seems AWOL, Mcguire is on the MOTD highlights every week but for bad reasons
AWB, now stands for Any (W)One But in a lot of man U fans eyes now
Great defence - how is that goal difference going?
Ronaldo has held his own up at times, but have United lost even more with him in the team?
Sancho - frozen out virtually, played out of position. I would definitely not write him off, but he needs to be picked back off, dusted off then go again next season.
Bruno - I dont think the stats was his true self in his first year due to the unbelievable amount of pens you got. The last 6 months are also not a true reflection of him, but he needs to be more consistent again and stop the childish strop body language and get on with his game.
Pogba - best rid.
I think man u are at a crossroads with regards to their keeper.

As Mike Tyson said, everyone has a plan until they're punched in the face.

Man u should have had more than enough to finish above Spurs, Arsenal and West ham, and if half of the optimistic points above would have happened been in and around Chelsea, but when a few things have gone wrong, the lack of leadership, togetherness and bloody well fight has seen even more go wrong, than less.
Click to expand...
The first sentence in your last paragraph sums up my logic at the start of the season, and the following sums up reasons why it went tits up. We should have been better, much better. But, we weren't. I don't think anyone could have predicted the Utd players would effectively lose all interest. Obviously there are some you'd expect it off more than others, but you'd hope the club and management could find ways to motivate them, or get rid. Not happened sadly.
 
Billysboots said:
?

In all seriousness, it wouldn’t bother me if he never pulled on a United shirt again.
Click to expand...

Back in the olden days when City used to get battered by Utd twice a year, three times if we drew them in a cup. I dreamed of watching football that fergies teams used to play.The Thai guy turned up and then the Arabs. As they say the rest is history. It has taken time. The last 10 years plus has been fantastic. Everyone looks at the money City has spent. What they don’t see is the people that are running the club. And I don’t mean Sheik Mansoor. The day to day running of the club. They were brought in from Barca and have been fantastic. I don’t feel Utd have those people doing the same at Utd. That needs sorting before another penny has been spent. Another thing about City is the academy, it is churning our some very good players making decent money for City.
yet going back years remember the young uns that carried Utd to a title.
The next couple of years are going to be interesting at Utd. Patience May well be the word. That said I think a big problem short term is not qualifying for the champs league May well cost utd in missing out on transfer targets. Ronaldos situation will be interesting, can he be persuaded to stay. My first task as new manager would be making sure Pogba never set foot through the door again.
 
Last edited:
Watching the Burnley v Southampton match and they've had a break in the match so that those players who are observing Ramadan can take on some calories after fasting from sunrise to sunset. I've no problem with that as an idea but the break is after 40 minutes of the first half. Would it have made that much of a difference for them to wait for 5 minutes until half time? I could understand it if the break had been after 20 or 25 minutes but just seems a bit strange with only 5 minutes left to play in the half.
 
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