The Footie Thread

[Tashyboy]

Do you think that City's system could still work with one "passenger" in the team that doesn't do the chasing and pressing? Passenger is in inverted commas because obviously Messi and Ronaldo are/have been world class players for many years and wouldn't really be a passenger but in terms of pressing it was the easiest word to use. Could you sacrifice one player from that high tempo to get a truly top player into your first 11? I'm actually thinking more in terms of having an out and out striker like Lewandowski, Haaland etc rather than the two mentioned, who is told to stay up front and just stick away some of the many chances that City create.

On your other point, I don't think it would be a Utd with Haaland, Pogba and Ronaldo on massive wages. I think Pogba and Ronaldo will both go at the end of the season so that will free up over half a million a week in wages.

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Ironically the term used was “ passenger”. Part of the discussion was that Aguero was becoming a passenger as his legs were going. Hence Jesus was getting more game time Because of his energy he could press. Personally if City had the choice I would of gone for Messi. But that’s irrelevant now. I can see Pogba going, but for me Ronaldo is the one to watch. For me, Is he stuck there now? Who else could afford him or want him.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

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but for me Ronaldo is the one to watch. For me, Is he stuck there now? Who else could afford him or want him.

We were having this chat at the weekend. The bigs leagues in Europe neither want him or can afford him, don't see him as the type to take a big pay cut, so is America his next move? China is not the cash cow it once was so that one is ruled out, even if he wanted to go there which I would doubt. He could score a bucket load in the MLS, sponsors would love him, nice lifestyle etc. I don't see him sticking another year at Utd with them in this current state and it would surely suit Utd to get him off the books.

I'm hoping he stays, Pogba signs a new deal. We couldn't be that lucky, could we

 

[Deleted member 18121]

I'm hoping he stays, Pogba signs a new deal. We couldn't be that lucky, could we

It's funny, as that when I mention that scenario to man utd fans I work with they want both of them to stay.... I honestly think they still believe the media hype rather than believing actual performances.

Maybe saying both have been a flop is a bit strong... But not a million miles off.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

It's funny, as that when I mention that scenario to man utd fans I work with they want both of them to stay.... I honestly think they still believe the media hype rather than believing actual performances.

Maybe saying both have been a flop is a bit strong... But not a million miles off.

Wow, they really want them to stay . Let's hope they have the ear of people in the board .

When you think of the money tied up with them both, fees, wages, extras, the effect they have on the team and the performances on the pitch, it doesn't add up to a whole lot of good. I think Pogba is the bigger waste but neither are positive for the club as a whole.

 

[Swango1980]

We were having this chat at the weekend. The bigs leagues in Europe neither want him or can afford him, don't see him as the type to take a big pay cut, so is America his next move? China is not the cash cow it once was so that one is ruled out, even if he wanted to go there which I would doubt. He could score a bucket load in the MLS, sponsors would love him, nice lifestyle etc. I don't see him sticking another year at Utd with them in this current state and it would surely suit Utd to get him off the books.

I'm hoping he stays, Pogba signs a new deal. We couldn't be that lucky, could we

The reason that fans can be quite indecisive is that, technically, he is not just better than any other player we have. He is light years ahead of them. Even since his return, he is the one central midfielder that you feel can turn the game in our favour, despite the poor performance from the team. I'd even say he is much technically superior to Bruno, who gives the ball away so much (hopefully because he feels pressured into taking too many risks). However, the downside is that it seems his mentality is nowhere near what it could be on or off the pitch. So, in that sense, on the balance of things, I would not be sad to see him go.

The hope, I am guessing, for some fans is that a manager comes in, and Utd bring in the right players (especially in defensive midfield), that somehow Utd can find the perfect position for Pogba on the pitch. That he can simply play to his strengths, and we have other players on the pitch that can lead and influence the team, and influence Pogba positively (because Pogba is certainly not a leader, I think he is the type of player that needs players around him to shoulder that responsibility and influence him, rather than him feeling he has to influence his team mates).

 

[Tashyboy]

Re Pogba there’s a couple Of things that concern me.
1, since his transfer in August 2016 he has played 131 games in the prem on average 26 a season. He is missing 30% of games.
3, in that time he has made 36 assists. That’s one be every 3 or 4 games. Those stats don’t sound world class for world class wages.
Plus 29 goals in that time and 5 in the last 2 1/2 seasons.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

The reason that fans can be quite indecisive is that, technically, he is not just better than any other player we have. He is light years ahead of them. Even since his return, he is the one central midfielder that you feel can turn the game in our favour, despite the poor performance from the team. I'd even say he is much technically superior to Bruno, who gives the ball away so much (hopefully because he feels pressured into taking too many risks). However, the downside is that it seems his mentality is nowhere near what it could be on or off the pitch. So, in that sense, on the balance of things, I would not be sad to see him go.

The hope, I am guessing, for some fans is that a manager comes in, and Utd bring in the right players (especially in defensive midfield), that somehow Utd can find the perfect position for Pogba on the pitch. That he can simply play to his strengths, and we have other players on the pitch that can lead and influence the team, and influence Pogba positively (because Pogba is certainly not a leader, I think he is the type of player that needs players around him to shoulder that responsibility and influence him, rather than him feeling he has to influence his team mates).

How many games does Pogba play inbetween the 'true Pogba' matches? Does he show his class every 6th game, 7th, 8th? He may be technically superior but if he doesn't turn up, what value is he to your team?

Can you afford to give him a new contract, loyalty bonus, signing fee plus inflated salary, in the hope the new manager and new CDM can unlock him?

 

[Deleted member 18121]

Maybe we're being unkind, maybe they are class.... For a mid table club. If the cap fits.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Re Pogba there’s a couple Of things that concern me.
1, since his transfer in August 2016 he has played 131 games in the prem on average 26 a season. He is missing 30% of games.
3, in that time he has made 36 assists. That’s one be every 3 or 4 games. Those stats don’t sound world class for world class wages.

Do you not think it more likely that those assists come in bunches? He has a wonder game, 2 assists, then nothing for 6-7 games? I can't be bothered to go through the stats to check if that is the case but that is the feeling I get, admitedly as someone who doesn't watch utd very often but is invariably disappointed by his displays when I do (well not really disappointed but you get the gist ).

 

[Swango1980]

Re Pogba there’s a couple Of things that concern me.
1, since his transfer in August 2016 he has played 131 games in the prem on average 26 a season. He is missing 30% of games.
3, in that time he has made 36 assists. That’s one be every 3 or 4 games. Those stats don’t sound world class for world class wages.

Absolutely, his stats are not impressive, and thus many would not cry to see him go.

But, the team have been pretty diabolical since he joined. Headless chickens. I know Ronaldo is older now, but even he is going through his worst goal drought in over a decade, at a time Utd have a friendly fixture list. Some players have gone through purple patches, but I don't think any player can boast about their longer terms stats.

 

[Tashyboy]

Maybe we're being unkind, maybe they are class.... For a mid table club. If the cap fits.

We could well be unkind but I think pogba is the tip of a massive problem iceberg at Utd.
I wonder where a new manager would start. Whoever comes in needs to be a quality manager but he is currently a quality manager at a Place now that is not drowning in problems He will Inherit.

 

[Swango1980]

How many games does Pogba play inbetween the 'true Pogba' matches? Does he show his class every 6th game, 7th, 8th? He may be technically superior but if he doesn't turn up, what value is he to your team?

Can you afford to give him a new contract, loyalty bonus, signing fee plus inflated salary, in the hope the new manager and new CDM can unlock him?

All of that is relevant. That is the decision the club need to make. It would be nice if the new manager could offer their opinion, as they might see a crucial role for him to play, or they may want him far far away from the club. But, perhaps this decision needs to be made before the new guy comes in, not sure how the timing of all these decisions will work out.

I'm simply saying that he is obviously technically more gifted than any other player we currently have, without a doubt. After he returned, I had that level of anticipation that he could do something great, or he could cause problems to the opposition. Whereas, if Fred, McTomminay, Mata or Matic made an appearance after a long time out, I would have absolutely no hope whatsoever that they could cause the opposition defence problems. My only hope it that they can somehow disrupt the opposition attack, not get hopelessly out of position or make any horrific errors. At best, I hope they simply have a steady game.

 

[Neilds]

How many games does Pogba play inbetween the 'true Pogba' matches? Does he show his class every 6th game, 7th, 8th? He may be technically superior but if he doesn't turn up, what value is he to your team?

Can you afford to give him a new contract, loyalty bonus, signing fee plus inflated salary, in the hope the new manager and new CDM can unlock him?

Maybe the 'true Pogba' is the on that appears lazy, uninterested, etc and the rare sighting of the brilliant player is just a fleeting spectacle?

 

[Swango1980]

Maybe the 'true Pogba' is the on that appears lazy, uninterested, etc and the rare sighting of the brilliant player is just a fleeting spectacle?

He is like Nani. Virtually unplayable for one game, nothing special for 9 games.

I guess the difference is that, whilst Nani was at the club he was a luxury player we were not desperate for, we generally had other key players we could rely on. Whereas with Pogba, it is almost like many pin more hope that he'll suddenly come good, because we can't rely on anyone else in the team. I think another difference, and a key one, is that Pogba has been consistently good in other teams (I didn't watch them, but that is what I hear from his Juve and France performances). So, one hopes different players and the right manager could get the best out of him week in, week out.

But, as a few of us have pointed out, the problems seem to run much much deeper than highlighting any single player.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Maybe the 'true Pogba' is the on that appears lazy, uninterested, etc and the rare sighting of the brilliant player is just a fleeting spectacle?

I agree. I put that up there, used quotation marks but should hae used a winking emoji really, as every so often he has a good game and the commentators use that phrase. It makes me chuckle each time. If it is only one in 6-8 games then it isn't hard to work out which is the real version.

 

[Foxholer]

How many games does Pogba play inbetween the 'true Pogba' matches? Does he show his class every 6th game, 7th, 8th? He may be technically superior but if he doesn't turn up, what value is he to your team?

Can you afford to give him a new contract, loyalty bonus, signing fee plus inflated salary, in the hope the new manager and new CDM can unlock him?

Much as it pains me to do so, I believe Rio Ferdinand is likely correct suggesting that Pogba needs to given a bollocking when he's not performing well. Huge talent, simply cruising, so needs to be woken up or replaced !

 

[Billysboots]

Much as it pains me to do so, I believe Rio Ferdinand is likely correct suggesting that Pogba needs to given a bollocking when he's not performing well. Huge talent, simply cruising, so needs to be woken up or replaced !

He is an infuriating player, by some distance the most infuriating I have seen. More often than not outstanding in the blue of France. More often than not bang average in the red of United.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

In regards Pogba - I hope Man Utd extend his contact and he stays there

Got to be the most expensive flop in Prem history

Wasted a huge amount of talent

He is 28 now , not a young developing kid , should be at his prime

Even Fernandes is turning into a one season penalty wonder at the moment

 

[Bdill93]

In regards Pogba - I hope Man Utd extend his contact and he stays there

Got to be the most expensive flop in Prem history

Wasted a huge amount of talent

He is 28 now , not a young developing kid , should be at his prime

Even Fernandes is turning into a one season penalty wonder at the moment

Its great isn't it

 

[Swango1980]

In regards Pogba - I hope Man Utd extend his contact and he stays there

Got to be the most expensive flop in Prem history

Wasted a huge amount of talent

He is 28 now , not a young developing kid , should be at his prime

Even Fernandes is turning into a one season penalty wonder at the moment

It depends how you define flop. He hasn't been great, but the entire team is a flop. Pogba, to many, is still one of the most talented in an awful team. It is not like he is out of his depth amongst those players. So, if you are purely going on transfer fee and whether a player was part of a successful side, then your definition could be correct (also need to consider the inflation of transfer fees through the years). But, not necessarily if you are just going on how bad the player was within the team they became part off.

Forlan, Kleberson, Djembe Djembe and Sanchez were arguably bigger flops at Utd. Bentley and Rebrov at Spurs. Kezman, Shevchenko and Mutu at Chelsea. Boumsong at Newcastle. Diao, Aquilani and Carroll at Liverpool. Brolin at Leeds. Jeffers at Arsenal.

Personally, I would rather have Pogba in my side than many of those players, even if it meant he was still more expensive after inflation was accounted for. I'm not saying Pogba is amazing, but there have been some stinkers in the 30 years of the Premier League, I bet there are more than I forgot about.