The Footie Thread

[Voyager EMH]

According to Law 12:

A direct free kick is awarded if a player commits any of the following offences against an opponent in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force:

• charges
• jumps at
• kicks or attempts to kick
• pushes
• strikes or attempts to strike (including head-butt)
• tackles or challenges
• trips or attempts to trip

Therefore, by deduction, a push is not always a foul unless the referee determines it to be careless, excessive or reckless.

No.
You have quoted from, "a direct free kick is awarded if"...

A deliberate push is a foul.
The referee may not always award a free kick for that foul.

If the referee's decision to award a free kick is the definition of whether a challenge is a foul, then the referee's decision can never be wrong.

In the recent incident involving Lloyd Kelly, he was pushed while heading the ball. This was reckless in my view, but was very clearly at least careless. The ref was wrong.

 

[Neilds]

No.
You have quoted from, "a direct free kick is awarded if"...

A deliberate push is a foul.
The referee may not always award a free kick for that foul.

If the referee's decision to award a free kick is the definition of whether a challenge is a foul, then the referee's decision can never be wrong.

In the recent incident involving Lloyd Kelly, he was pushed while heading the ball. This was reckless in my view, but was very clearly at least careless. The ref was wrong.

Could you provide the ruling to back up your thoughts?

 

[PaulMdj]

No.
You have quoted from, "a direct free kick is awarded if"...

A deliberate push is a foul.
The referee may not always award a free kick for that foul.

If the referee's decision to award a free kick is the definition of whether a challenge is a foul, then the referee's decision can never be wrong.

In the recent incident involving Lloyd Kelly, he was pushed while heading the ball. This was reckless in my view, but was very clearly at least careless. The ref was wrong.

It isn’t, ie, players competing for the ball at a corner kick, a players falls over and sees another player about to land on top of him so he deliberately pushes him away.

There could be plenty of other reasons why a player may deliberately push an opponent, not all deliberate pushes are fouls as you seem to be sticking to.

 

[Voyager EMH]

It isn’t, ie, players competing for the ball at a corner kick, a players falls over and sees another player about to land on top of him so he deliberately pushes him away.

There could be plenty of other reasons why a player may deliberately push an opponent, not all deliberate pushes are fouls as you seem to be sticking to.

Protecting yourself from possible injury is a special case in this scenario. It is not directly related to the incident that prompted this discussion.

A deliberate push on someone playing the ball is a foul. (in the vast majority of cases, but there may be rare occasions that I have not yet thought of)
I will happily respond to any more red herrings.

I think "a deliberate push is a foul" is not a misleading phrase, if one considers two players, one of whom is playing the ball, the other one is the pusher.

 

[Neilds]

Protecting yourself from possible injury is a special case in this scenario. It is not directly related to the incident that prompted this discussion.

A deliberate push on someone playing the ball is a foul. (in the vast majority of cases, but there may be rare occasions that I have not yet thought of)
I will happily respond to any more red herrings.

I think "a deliberate push is a foul" is not a misleading phrase, if one considers two players, one of whom is playing the ball, the other one is the pusher.

Could you provide the ruling to back up your thoughts?

 

[Voyager EMH]

Could you provide the ruling to back up your thoughts?

You've already done that for me, thanks.

According to Law 12:

...any of the following offences against an opponent in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force:

• pushes

A careless or reckless push is a foul. A referee can make a mistake.

 

[Neilds]

You've already done that for me, thanks.

According to Law 12:

...any of the following offences against an opponent in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force:

• pushes

A careless or reckless push is a foul. A referee can make a mistake.

So we agree that a push is not automatically a foul?

 

[PaulMdj]

Protecting yourself from possible injury is a special case in this scenario. It is not directly related to the incident that prompted this discussion.

A deliberate push on someone playing the ball is a foul. (in the vast majority of cases, but there may be rare occasions that I have not yet thought of)
I will happily respond to any more red herrings.

I think "a deliberate push is a foul" is not a misleading phrase, if one considers two players, one of whom is playing the ball, the other one is the pusher.

You've already done that for me, thanks.

According to Law 12:

...any of the following offences against an opponent in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force:

• pushes

A careless or reckless push is a foul. A referee can make a mistake.

You keep saying a careless or reckless push is a foul, who decides if it is careless or reckless? The Referee, you then quantify it by saying Referee’s can make a mistake, he won’t be making a mistake, in his mind he’ll of considered the “push” and made his decision.

Therefore not every reckless or careless push is a definite foul.