The Footie Thread

[Swango1980]

Must of missed that obvious joke then

As I said as well no doubt the greatest striker and his longevity is testament to his dedication to his trade and his physique but for me once he went to Saudi any additional goals scores to increase the legend become a bit pointless considering the quality of football and opposition.

I am aware it was career not just international but maybe you missed my point like I Missed your joke. I was merely pointing out one of the reason he scored so many is the increased nothing games at international level that was not available to the others in your list therefore reducing their games to goals opportunities

If you like, you could remove most of his international goals, and he'd still be ahead of many.

And it isn't like past players didnt play internationals against awful opponents. In an age with arguably worse coaching. And played lots of international games as well. Drogba played over 100 internationals, and he probably wasn't playing Brazil and France every time?

Putting Francis Jeffers in the same list as those other players seemed an obvious piss take to me. I was wrong

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

If you like, you could remove most of his international goals, and he'd still be ahead of many.

And it isn't like past players didnt play internationals against awful opponents. In an age with arguably worse coaching. And played lots of international games as well. Drogba played over 100 internationals, and he probably wasn't playing Brazil and France every time?

Putting Francis Jeffers in the same list as those other players seemed an obvious piss take to me. I was wrong

Yep you were

Never said others didn’t play lesser teams. But they played them a lot less than CR7 has in his career now we have pretty much year round football.

Anyway as I said arguably the greatest goal scorer ever but not the greatest player.

 

[Swango1980]

Yep you were

Never said others didn’t play lesser teams. But they played them a lot less than CR7 has in his career now we have pretty much year round football.

Anyway as I said arguably the greatest goal scorer ever but not the greatest player.

Ronaldo has not played vastly more international games since turning 30 than most of those other greats did during their entire careers. You make it sound like he has played an extra 50-100 games against international sides.

At any rate, we had just been sharing a remarkable stat. I don't think anyone was trying to get into the debate of who the greatest player was of all time? That's completely subjective, and there may be dozens of players that different people could give great arguments for them being the greatest

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

Ronaldo has not played vastly more international games since turning 30 than most of those other greats did during their entire careers. You make it sound like he has played an extra 50-100 games against international sides.

At any rate, we had just been sharing a remarkable stat. I don't think anyone was trying to get into the debate of who the greatest player was of all time? That's completely subjective, and there may be dozens of players that different people could give great arguments for them being the greatest

Just for a point of debate and playing my role as the devils advocate,Total number of competitive games at Club and international level played by the list you compiled since they turned 30;
Cristiano Ronaldo : 567
Maradona : 37
Raul :133
Neymar :161
Drogba 219
R9 :171
Etoo :180
Henry: 179

That just taken from a quick google search. R9 is higher than I expected Henry and Etoo lower than I thought. But that alone shows the comparisons don’t really bare fruit that CR7 hasn’t played significantly more (including a load more internationals)and therefore had a shed load more chances to score those goals. Though what it does confirm is the testament to looking after himself though to have such a long career to create such a legacy.

Anyway just thought it was interesting especially as over his career he’s played 223 internationals compared to likes of Maradona 91 and Henry 123, so it could be argued yes he has had a lot more chances over 30 to play the lesser teams.

Anyway that’s me out on Ronaldo just thought it interesting and don’t get me started on Jeffers

 

[hairball_89]

Games played, whatever… his longevity, consistency through that longevity and commitment to the cause is phenomenal.

The best goalscorer the game has seen - because of numbers and longevity combined. Personally id say Messi is the better footballer because he is who I’d rather watch. But whatever your metric, Ronaldo is one of the best ever. Undoubtedly

 

[Swango1980]

Just for a point of debate and playing my role as the devils advocate,Total number of competitive games at Club and international level played by the list you compiled since they turned 30;
Cristiano Ronaldo : 567
Maradona : 37
Raul :133
Neymar :161
Drogba 219
R9 :171
Etoo :180
Henry: 179

That just taken from a quick google search. R9 is higher than I expected Henry and Etoo lower than I thought. But that alone shows the comparisons don’t really bare fruit that CR7 hasn’t played significantly more (including a load more internationals)and therefore had a shed load more chances to score those goals. Though what it does confirm is the testament to looking after himself though to have such a long career to create such a legacy.

Anyway just thought it was interesting especially as over his career he’s played 223 internationals compared to likes of Maradona 91 and Henry 123, so it could be argued yes he has had a lot more chances over 30 to play the lesser teams.

Anyway that’s me out on Ronaldo just thought it interesting and don’t get me started on Jeffers

Why are you comparing Ronaldo to their records AFTER they turned 30, when the whole point of the stat is comparing Ronaldo's record after HE was 30 to their record over their ENTIRE careers?

You should present his stats after he turned 30 to their stats over their entire careers.

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

Why are you comparing Ronaldo to their records AFTER they turned 30, when the whole point of the stat is comparing Ronaldo's record after HE was 30 to their record over their ENTIRE careers?

You should present his stats after he turned 30 to their stats over their entire careers.

Maybe read what I said in the post playing devils advocate and highlighting that the sheer number of games overall means that obviously past 30 he has played a lot more therefore would have had more opportunities. But then I thought that was obvious hence the Jeffers joke at the end but then I guess that wasn’t obvious was it !! Have a good day mate

 

[Hobbit]

Why are you comparing Ronaldo to their records AFTER they turned 30, when the whole point of the stat is comparing Ronaldo's record after HE was 30 to their record over their ENTIRE careers?

You should present his stats after he turned 30 to their stats over their entire careers.

Does it really matter?

Who wouldn’t have any of those players at their club? Personally, I think a player reaches a level where it doesn’t matter if they’re an out-and-out number 9/10/winger, they’re just at a superstar level.

It’s a bit like saying what’s the difference between having £25billion in the bank compared to £30billion. When you get to that level, it’s a pointless exercise splitting hairs.

 

[Swango1980]

Does it really matter?

Who wouldn’t have any of those players at their club? Personally, I think a player reaches a level where it doesn’t matter if they’re an out-and-out number 9/10/winger, they’re just at a superstar level.

It’s a bit like saying what’s the difference between having £25billion in the bank compared to £30billion. When you get to that level, it’s a pointless exercise splitting hairs.

I would love those players at my club. It is the very reason they are on the list.

It is clear some have completely missed the point of the original post. All it does is highlight how unbelievable C Ronaldo had been after turning 30, that is all.

You could completely ignore C Ronaldo's record before he was 30, and his stats would still help support the argument of him being one of the greatest strikers that ever lived. I wonder how many other players that could be said of?

 

[Hobbit]

I would love those players at my club. It is the very reason they are on the list.

It is clear some have completely missed the point of the original post. All it does is highlight how unbelievable C Ronaldo had been after turning 30, that is all.

You could completely ignore C Ronaldo's record before he was 30, and his stats would still help support the argument of him being one of the greatest strikers that ever lived. I wonder how many other players that could be said of?

I sometimes ponder just how good the best players are. Admittedly, they are in teams that provide the best service but, equally, those teams regularly play against other top (CL) teams whose defenders are also top class.

Whatever, I don’t think there’s a definitive answer other than, as you say, “one of the greatest…”

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Fake Ronaldo - heavy goalscorer , lethal as can be seen by his record

Suspect he will keep going in Saudi to ensure he breaks whatever records are left

The good news is the Prem is back this weekend

 

[Swango1980]

Fake Ronaldo - heavy goalscorer , lethal as can be seen by his record

Suspect he will keep going in Saudi to ensure he breaks whatever records are left

The good news is the Prem is back this weekend

Are there any records left to beat?

I suspect he will keep trying to play football as long as he can, wherever that is. He is that obsessed with keeping in shape, I think playing football must be his primary goal. I could see him still playing at 50 at some semi-pro side somewhere.

Difficult to see him losing his passion, like many do. And I'm not sure he has any dreams to become a coach/manager, but could be wrong

 

[Swango1980]

I sometimes ponder just how good the best players are. Admittedly, they are in teams that provide the best service but, equally, those teams regularly play against other top (CL) teams whose defenders are also top class.

Whatever, I don’t think there’s a definitive answer other than, as you say, “one of the greatest…”

In terms of greatest players, I always think it is meaningless to narrow it to one. They all offer many different qualities.

In my time, as a Utd fan, Ronaldo has been the greatest I've seen, the main guy who could have you on the edge of your seat for 2/3 seasons. That being said, if I could pick any player from our past to improve our side now, I'd probably have to take Roy Keane, as it is his qualities we need more I think.

Completely understand arguments for players like Messi, Maradona, Zidane and if you supported their teams, you will have plenty of good arguments based on your experiences. Maybe some defenders get a good shout.

Then players of the past, like George Best. I never saw him play, so it is only the legend of Best I know of. Would love to have watched him in his prime.

If I am alive in 30/40 years, there will be many people who will never have watched Ronaldo or Messi. There will probably be all sorts of claims about the great current players of that generation. However, the legend of Messi and Ronaldo will have grown for a few decades by then, and no doubt many in my generation will boast about having the pleasure of watching these great players in their prime.

I wonder, back in the 70's / 80's, if there were more voices of people discrediting the likes of Best, Maradona, Cruyff, etc because they preferred another player in that generation? Whereas now people tend to look more positively at these great players as they fall further into history?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

It's a classic pub chat question, with no correct answer. The numbers are remarkable but they are being massaged by playing in a pub league now. When Portugal reach a tournament finals now, he is a liability. Whilst in qualifying, he can still score.

If pure numbers matter then these figures will excite you. If you dig a little deeper, not very deep, the numbers are less interesting. His fitness and longevity are remarkable but that doesn't elevate your standing over players from a different era.

Whatever the chat, if you are putting together a top 10 players to play the game, he would be in the discussion.

 

[Swango1980]

It's a classic pub chat question, with no correct answer. The numbers are remarkable but they are being massaged by playing in a pub league now. When Portugal reach a tournament finals now, he is a liability. Whilst in qualifying, he can still score.

If pure numbers matter then these figures will excite you. If you dig a little deeper, not very deep, the numbers are less interesting. His fitness and longevity are remarkable but that doesn't elevate your standing over players from a different era.

Whatever the chat, if you are putting together a top 10 players to play the game, he would be in the discussion.

I mean, he has played in a pub league for two and a half years. And there is no evidence to suggest that if Ronaldo didn't play at major tournaments Portugal would have somehow been a much better force to reckon with. Just wishful thinking by some, more than based in any sort of fact. Maybe Portugal just had disappointing performances, like other national sides, with a different player up front?

But it always amuses me that whenever Ronaldo (or Messi's) names are mentioned in any sort of positive light, there will be some that feel compelled to play the "devil's advocate" and find reasons to discredit what has been said.

It was never a "who is the greatest player debate", it simply highlights his fitness and longevity and that he has still performed at such a high level. In your second line, when you said "his fitness and longevity are remarkable" that is all you needed to say. That is all that the stat was trying to highlight. The second bit was not really part of the argument. Who would you rather have for one season, a 40 year old Cristiano Ronaldo or a 21 year old Brazilian Ronaldo? The Brazilian one please. And, many would rightly probably prefer the Brazilian one at 21 compared to the Portuguese one at 21, given the Portuguese one had not quite elevated himself to the goalscorer he became by that point.

 

[Don Barzini]

The good news is the Prem is back this weekend

Saw a Tweet from a random this morning which made me chuckle:

"Just clocked that people who don’t like football are living a 70-year international break and then they die."

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Chelsea are being charged over payments to agents over a lengthy period. If guilty, does that mean they have cheated the way to their titles as well?

 

[Swango1980]

Chelsea facing 74 charges over agent payments.

Really excited about hearing the verdict in the year 2047

 

[clubchamp98]

Chelsea are being charged over payments to agents over a lengthy period. If guilty, does that mean they have cheated the way to their titles as well?

Can of worms there.
They all do it.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Can of worms there.
They all do it.

It's like tapping up. It's just about who gets caught.