The Footie Thread

[rudebhoy]

Oh, they’ll care. Look at how bitter Rangers fans are.

Rangers weren't stripped of any titles. They just went out of business.

 

[IanM]

I remember Swindon being relegated for financial irregularities.

Given the magnitude of their counsel, I suspect City will escape with barely a scratch.

 

[Tashyboy]

please share your proof that clubs took illegal money

If City have over spent and broke FFP. That’s illegal money that went to clubs. Clubs loaned City were spending too much but took City’s “ illegal rule breaking money “.
Edit to say if City have overspent

 

[Tashyboy]

Rangers weren't stripped of any titles. They just went out of business.

But surely FFP should have stopped that.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

We have had money in football buying success before with blackburn and Chelsea

Without those it would always be the same teams over and over

One team dominating then using their money to dominate more

Fergie broke the mold when he got the class of 1992 but now academies are restricted more by distance for players. so would Beckham be able to be with them? Would Carrick of been able to come through our academy? .. without the class of 92 united would never have dominated like they did .. they used that to build more and more success

So what we are suppose to want to see united , arsenal and Liverpool win everything forever? That's boring

Chelsea and city have made things interesting... City went too far and dominated however klopp brought Liverpool back to competing again and actually got the league interesting once more

The league needs competitive nature .. if it needs outside investment to do so .. meh

In what way has City made in interesting

They have 5 of the last 6 titles , looking to be the first club to win 4 on the bounce , it has the potential to start to become like Bundesliga where it’s dominated by a single team

The league isn’t competitive and City will more than likely win again this season , and then again next season

Gone are the days of a Villa , Derby , Forest , Everton , Leeds coming though using their talent and scouting and football management

Getting to a place where teams earn their money and then earn the ability to bring players in

 

[Tashyboy]

I remember Swindon being relegated for financial irregularities.

Given the magnitude of their counsel, I suspect City will escape with barely a scratch.

We have better barristers

 

[Swango1980]

It's after the event, the moment has gone. City fans will still see those titles as theirs, they had the elation etc.

Obviously you cannot change history, and the joy City fans felt at that time. And no doubt if those titles were stripped from City, City fans will tell us every moment they get that they still consider those titles theirs.

BUT, I can guarantee that City fans would rather not have to continually justify those titles as being won fairly, especially as it is a difficult argument if they've been officially stripped away. Lance Armstrong won a load of Tour de France's and I'm sure he was elated. Any fans he would have had would have been over-joyed. When they were stripped off him, do you think Lance Armstrong and any of his fans were equally proud of his achievements? Do they still consider those victories his? I don't think so.

City fans might continue to argue they were won fairly, but that would simply not be the case officially. If those titles were stripped from them, fans of other clubs could fairly say that, if their club wasn't hamstrung by FFP (by simply ignoring it), they bought in players to strengthen their sides, then they'd have beat City anyway. When Liverpool finished a point or so behind them, then Liverpool fans would easily argue that if the City squad was a little weaker, or if Liverpool could have strengthened a bit more, then Liverpool would have pipped City to the title.

 

[IanM]

We have better barristers

You don't think City are wealthier than Swindon?

 

[clubchamp98]

If they can expunge all of Lance Armstrongs victories, why not City?

Yes and Olympic athletes who are found guilty of cheating lose their medals.

We all know it’s not going to happen.

 

[clubchamp98]

This probably comes down to the crux of the matter, I don't care if they were self financing or not. The end result is they were out spending all of the other teams. What do those other teams do, just accept that? Does football accept a 2-3 club league? No thanks. If that means a rich person comes in and gives a club a helping hand, I'm fine with that. Give them a boost, maybe they then don't need the money boost after a while. The profile of Chelsea is massively different now to the pre Roman era, City the same. Neither could have made that leap without the money ploughed in.

The above comments will explode the minds of some people, mainly those from the established, wealthy clubs. That's fine, that's their view and they are fully entitled to disagree.

I agree with most of this!
But when Everton and Forest do it they are punished so why not City?

 

[Hobbit]

This 100%.

From a fans perspective, the players weren't doped, refs weren't bribed, this is about finances only. They've seen utd, liverpool, Chelsea, Chelsea , buy titles for years with no restrictions in place. Suddenly City splash cash to buy players and that isn't allowed . City fans will not care one jot, the titles are theirs as far as they are concerned.

FFP hasn’t worked. The richest clubs still attract and buy the best players. And they still spend the most money. The minnows still feed off scraps and are kept as minnows by rules brought in to protect the big clubs. No more speculate to accumulate by smaller clubs trying to get to the top table. If a smaller club, like Forest and Everton, do spend they‘re hit immediately . If there was a will to take on the big clubs City & Chelsea would have been punished by now.

Nothing has changed and nothing will change because the PL can’t afford to take the big clubs on, and I’m not sure they really want to anyway.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I agree with most of this!
But when Everton and Forest do it they are punished so why not City?

They are still going through the process with City - it’s massively different level of charges , Everton and Forest are simple overspending, the City charges are vast and more complex - City have been charged and under investigation

 

[Hobbit]

It doesn’t matter why they brought in FFP it was still rules that clubs must abide by

It doesn’t matter how money a club makes or how rich an owner is that doesn’t mean it should be ignored when rules are broken and what happened for clubs in years past are irrelevant

If Man City are found guilty then it’s cheating at the end of the day - all those players that arrived to create memories and titles did so because the club cheated financially - it’s no different to bribes , drugs etc

Every trophy they won during that period will be tainted and even any trophy since because they have got to their position through financially cheating

The excuse that “protect top clubs” etc etc doesn’t wash , that’s not an excuse to be able ignore rules

It’s not just them cheating to win titles, it’s the smaller clubs that might have been relegated because they were cheated out of 3-6-9 points that might have kept them up.

 

[clubchamp98]

They are still going through the process with City - it’s massively different level of charges , Everton and Forest are simple overspending, the City charges are vast and more complex - City have been charged and under investigation

Yes I get that.
But just pluck one charge out similar to Everton’s and go after them for that!
The other charges can be dealt with later on.

What this might do is stop them winning any more tainted titles in the mean time.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

It’s not just them cheating to win titles, it’s the smaller clubs that might have been relegated because they were cheated out of 3-6-9 points that might have kept them up.

And it’s clubs that didn’t win titles or cups as well - a lot of comes down to the arrogance of money and them thinking they can find ways to get around the rules , it helped them avoid UEFA punishments by constantly delaying any investigation

If they were totally innocent then it would have all been sorted by now

But that doesn’t mean there can’t be ways to adjust rules in the future to help clubs sustain success without having to rely on trillion pound oil funds

 

[Hobbit]

Way back in this thread I posted that I don’t have problem with big clubs spending big. I’m all for a free market letting clubs fight for their place. Money doesn’t guarantee success, Utd being by far the best example of how a rich club can screw up. And Leicester proved that big bucks aren’t necessary to win a title, although they’ve royally screwed up since.

However, I’m very keen on sustainability rules. When a pack cards falls it’s the staff, the fans and the other clubs that also feel the pain.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Yes I get that.
But just pluck one charge out similar to Everton’s and go after them for that!
The other charges can be dealt with later on.

What this might do is stop them winning any more tainted titles in the mean time.

I don’t think it’s as simple as that - there is a lot more to it with city that’s beyond just overspending , this is potentially financial corruption

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I agree with most of this!
But when Everton and Forest do it they are punished so why not City?

Just let us both off, same as City .

In terms of punishment, I think the Everton one is interesting if 10 points for a £19m overspend over 3yrs is going to be the benchmark. Will it be proportionate to that for all clubs? I don't think anyone believes that. We've been scapegoated to send a message but I wonder if it will bite the authorities at some point when / if one of the really big boys get caught.

 

[TimShady]

Rangers weren't stripped of any titles. They just went out of business.

I know but it’s the same sort of thing whereby they cling to a false narrative of their existence.

 

[Tashyboy]

Obviously you cannot change history, and the joy City fans felt at that time. And no doubt if those titles were stripped from City, City fans will tell us every moment they get that they still consider those titles theirs.

BUT, I can guarantee that City fans would rather not have to continually justify those titles as being won fairly, especially as it is a difficult argument if they've been officially stripped away. Lance Armstrong won a load of Tour de France's and I'm sure he was elated. Any fans he would have had would have been over-joyed. When they were stripped off him, do you think Lance Armstrong and any of his fans were equally proud of his achievements? Do they still consider those victories his? I don't think so.

City fans might continue to argue they were won fairly, but that would simply not be the case officially. If those titles were stripped from them, fans of other clubs could fairly say that, if their club wasn't hamstrung by FFP (by simply ignoring it), they bought in players to strengthen their sides, then they'd have beat City anyway. When Liverpool finished a point or so behind them, then Liverpool fans would easily argue that if the City squad was a little weaker, or if Liverpool could have strengthened a bit more, then Liverpool would have pipped City to the title.

This is a very good post.
There’s a few points though. How do you constitute fairly. Money does not guarantee success.
Re City, Sheik Mansoor bought the club for £220 million.
It is now worth in excess £5 Billion. It is now the number 1 team in the world. Would it have attained that status by following the corrupt Michael Platinis FFP rules.