The Footie Thread

[fundy]

He would at least be able to teach someone else to actually run beyond him when he drops deep. That's what Dele was doing back when he was actually good, and later on he developed Son to play that way to good effect.

when you say run beyond him you mean play someone else up front the amount Kane drops deep these days for England!

genuinely think if Kane is going to keep playing as he is England need to play another striker "alongside"

 

[Orikoru]

when you say run beyond him you mean play someone else up front the amount Kane drops deep these days for England!

genuinely think if Kane is going to keep playing as he is England need to play another striker "alongside"

Well not really, it's about timing of runs but I think you know that and you're being facetious.

My opinion is that the more stale and less creative the team is, the more Kane comes deep to look for the ball. If the team was actually playing with some attacking verve he wouldn't need to. I have noticed it with Spurs, if we're playing well in attack he doesn't drop off nearly as much, and if he does, it's as I said, to link with Son or Kulusevski who play off him and get in the box, so it works.

 

[fundy]

Well not really, it's about timing of runs but I think you know that and you're being facetious.

My opinion is that the more stale and less creative the team is, the more Kane comes deep to look for the ball. If the team was actually playing with some attacking verve he wouldn't need to. I have noticed it with Spurs, if we're playing well in attack he doesn't drop off nearly as much, and if he does, it's as I said, to link with Son or Kulusevski who play off him and get in the box, so it works.

Partly facetious yes but is another indicator of the lack of a coherent structure/plan currently with Kane regularly occupying the space where the midfielders need to be working and against defenses that are sitting pretty deep and dont have room to run in behind (as you do get in some prem games). Him dropping deep for England doesnt work and just creates more problems. There are several issues currently but this is quite a big one imo (almost as big as not picking a left footer at LB, he really needs to have another option after Shaw and Chilwell even if it means playing Saka there)

Dont think Southgate is going away from 5 at the back come the worlds so for me he needs to commit to playing proper wingbacks, the 2 he wants in midfield and keep Kane as an out and out striker. That leaves room for 2 more attacking players out of Foden, Grealish, Sterling, Mount, Saka etc

Something like:
GK
James 3CBs Chilwell
Rice Bellingham
Sterling Kane Foden

Wouldnt be my choice personally but think its the best we can hope for (injuries/form permitting)

 

[pokerjoke]

Had a chat with a Brighton fan last night and he was convinced Potter was in line for the job. Infinitely better qualified than that clown Southgate. Also Graham Potter is an ex Macclesfield Town player, so another good reason to give him the job.?

Imo would be a crazy appointment

 

[Beezerk]

Partly facetious yes but is another indicator of the lack of a coherent structure/plan currently with Kane regularly occupying the space where the midfielders need to be working and against defenses that are sitting pretty deep and dont have room to run in behind (as you do get in some prem games). Him dropping deep for England doesnt work and just creates more problems. There are several issues currently but this is quite a big one imo (almost as big as not picking a left footer at LB, he really needs to have another option after Shaw and Chilwell even if it means playing Saka there)

Dont think Southgate is going away from 5 at the back come the worlds so for me he needs to commit to playing proper wingbacks, the 2 he wants in midfield and keep Kane as an out and out striker. That leaves room for 2 more attacking players out of Foden, Grealish, Sterling, Mount, Saka etc

Something like:
GK
James 3CBs Chilwell
Rice Bellingham
Sterling Kane Foden

Wouldnt be my choice personally but think its the best we can hope for (injuries/form permitting)

You’ve left Southgates favourite non entity player Mount out of that lineup ?

 

[Orikoru]

Partly facetious yes but is another indicator of the lack of a coherent structure/plan currently with Kane regularly occupying the space where the midfielders need to be working and against defenses that are sitting pretty deep and dont have room to run in behind (as you do get in some prem games). Him dropping deep for England doesnt work and just creates more problems. There are several issues currently but this is quite a big one imo (almost as big as not picking a left footer at LB, he really needs to have another option after Shaw and Chilwell even if it means playing Saka there)

Dont think Southgate is going away from 5 at the back come the worlds so for me he needs to commit to playing proper wingbacks, the 2 he wants in midfield and keep Kane as an out and out striker. That leaves room for 2 more attacking players out of Foden, Grealish, Sterling, Mount, Saka etc

Something like:
GK
James 3CBs Chilwell
Rice Bellingham
Sterling Kane Foden

Wouldnt be my choice personally but think its the best we can hope for (injuries/form permitting)

Yeah, I think it comes down to coaching. As a former centre back and a 'pragmatic' shall we say manager, it seems like Southgate just spends most of his coaching time on defending. Other than Sterling who does it occasionally, I don't think the other attackers get close enough to Kane. Having said that, Grealish usually seems to link up well with Kane but they rarely get enough minutes together.

That is basically the system Conte uses, but for him wing backs are attackers first and defenders second, whereas for Southgate I think it's the other way around, which drastically alters how the formation plays. I don't even think Chilwell is an ideal LWB as I see him more of a back four left back. Saka may even be the best starting option there you know. Similar to Spurs when we started picking Sessegnon over Reguilon. With proper wing backs you can get the ball forward more directly and Kane doesn't need to bugger off looking for it quite as much.

 

[Golfmmad]

Do you not realise that everything about the modern player's lifestyle is different now? They don't drink, they have nutritionists so they are eating the right foods all of the time, they spend time in the gym - they're absolute athletes. If Best or anyone from that era was playing now, he clearly had the talent, but he'd have had to buck his ideas up in terms of lifestyle or else @BiMGuy is right, he wouldn't last five minutes.

Yes of course I realise players lifestyles are different now, absolutely.
As I've already said Best in his youth, late teens early twenties, would have no problem with fitness in today's game. I'm sure a lot of players still have a few drinks on the quiet.
Of course he wouldn't be able to keep it up for as long as he did in his latter career. The exuberance of youth was his friend. ?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Fixtures for next season

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61783101

 

[Orikoru]

Yes of course I realise players lifestyles are different now, absolutely.
As I've already said Best in his youth, late teens early twenties, would have no problem with fitness in today's game. I'm sure a lot of players still have a few drinks on the quiet.
Of course he wouldn't be able to keep it up for as long as he did in his latter career. The exuberance of youth was his friend. ?

He was before my time, so I will bow to your judgement on him. But the overriding impression was that he was very much into drinking, gambling, being a ladies man etc. Do you think many modern managers would even stand for that? It's not the done thing for Premier League footballers nowadays. Would he have cut back on it?

 

[Leftitshort]

This is a silly argument. Players from 40/30/20 years ago, in the physical condition they were then, no chance. Wouldn’t last 20mins. But if George best played now, he would benefit from all of the advances in sports science/fitness/diet. & be a superstr.
I’f not he couldn’t cut it. Football is a different game now vs 30 years ago

 

[Jimaroid]

It's not the done thing for Premier League footballers nowadays.

I can’t think of a single premier league player that’s not into the ladies.

 

[Orikoru]

I can’t think of a single premier league player that’s not into the ladies.

But they get absolutely slated when caught out, whereas in Best's time it was probably laughed off or even encouraged.

 

[Jimaroid]

But they get absolutely slated when caught out, whereas in Best's time it was probably laughed off or even encouraged.

Nonsense, the entire WAG culture of hangers on and trophy wives is worse now than it ever has been.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

This is a silly argument. Players from 40/30/20 years ago, in the physical condition they were then, no chance. Wouldn’t last 20mins. But if George best played now, he would benefit from all of the advances in sports science/fitness/diet. & be a superstr.
I’f not he couldn’t cut it. Football is a different game now vs 30 years ago

Sums it up

The best players in those days still had the highest ability - there is no doubt they would be conforming to the current physical standards needed

 

[Golfmmad]

He was before my time, so I will bow to your judgement on him. But the overriding impression was that he was very much into drinking, gambling, being a ladies man etc. Do you think many modern managers would even stand for that? It's not the done thing for Premier League footballers nowadays. Would he have cut back on it?

No, he wouldn't be allowed such freedom nowadays.
The question was relating to his fitness and I would argue all day long that, "In his prime", and younger days he would easily handle todays fitness regimes.
And accept, he would have to conform. ?

 

[GB72]

No, he wouldn't be allowed such freedom nowadays.
The question was relating to his fitness and I would argue all day long that, "In his prime", and younger days he would easily handle todays fitness regimes.
And accept, he would have to conform. ?

Agreed, and the comparison is not a fair one. You cannot make the comparison by assuming that that someone in their youth all those years ago would have the same attitudes to many aspects of life now. Best would have been brought up with modern sensibilities and attitudes to lifestyle if he played now as he was doing in his own youth where drinking, smoking, being on the front pages of the paper etc were seen as normal and expected.

If you are looking at generational comparisons, I think that you can only look at skill levels and have to assume that fitness and attitudes would be in tune with the generation you are comparing with.

Lets look at it the other way, do you think that Ronaldo or Messi could have cut it in on ploughed field pitches with old boots, a heavy ball and having drunk 10 pints and smoked 20 JPS the night before whilst living on a 1960s diet.

 

[Golfmmad]

Agreed, and the comparison is not a fair one. You cannot make the comparison by assuming that that someone in their youth all those years ago would have the same attitudes to many aspects of life now. Best would have been brought up with modern sensibilities and attitudes to lifestyle if he played now as he was doing in his own youth where drinking, smoking, being on the front pages of the paper etc were seen as normal and expected.

If you are looking at generational comparisons, I think that you can only look at skill levels and have to assume that fitness and attitudes would be in tune with the generation you are comparing with.

Lets look at it the other way, do you think that Ronaldo or Messi could have cut it in on ploughed field pitches with old boots, a heavy ball and having drunk 10 pints and smoked 20 JPS the night before whilst living on a 1960s diet.

Probably not! ?
I don't think that Best was a smoker though.

 

[Orikoru]

Agreed, and the comparison is not a fair one. You cannot make the comparison by assuming that that someone in their youth all those years ago would have the same attitudes to many aspects of life now. Best would have been brought up with modern sensibilities and attitudes to lifestyle if he played now as he was doing in his own youth where drinking, smoking, being on the front pages of the paper etc were seen as normal and expected.

If you are looking at generational comparisons, I think that you can only look at skill levels and have to assume that fitness and attitudes would be in tune with the generation you are comparing with.

Lets look at it the other way, do you think that Ronaldo or Messi could have cut it in on ploughed field pitches with old boots, a heavy ball and having drunk 10 pints and smoked 20 JPS the night before whilst living on a 1960s diet.

I don't agree that we can assume that. Plenty of talented players have disappeared from the modern game because they didn't have the work ethic. I agree more with your first point that it's impossible to say whether someone like Best would have knuckled down to today's standards, or whether he'd have dropped out. In modern day football he could have been a Messi or he could have been an Adel Taarabt.

 

[Beezerk]

I don't agree that we can assume that. Plenty of talented players have disappeared from the modern game because they didn't have the work ethic.

Gazza, a world class player ruined by alcohol and bad decisions.

 

[Orikoru]

Gazza, a world class player ruined by alcohol and bad decisions.

In addition to appalling hounding by journalists too.