The farce of THE MAIL on SUNDAY FIRST ROUND...please read

[alexgolf]

Hi everyone

Are you one of the possibly 40 to 50 or so clubs that have been kicked out of the MoS Classic today on the toss of a coin. This due to the inflexability, I M O, of the Tournament Director to apply a bit of common sense.

I reproduce the thread below (i know it is a bit long....sorry) to be fair to both sides and you all the facts as they happened.

If this was just us at Singing Hills that this applied to then actually we wouldnt have a leg to stand on, but with that number of clubs that they admit this has happened to, it makes a farce of the 2012 competition.

I know you can say "why didnt you play earlier" well for us and obviously others this wasnt an option and last Sunday was the day we had to play.

I think i have been fair and looked at ways round this, not only for this year but for the future, which is why you need to see the thread. It starts at the bottom up and the messages are short.

Thank you for taking the time to have a look. Believe me all i want to do is play golf...not get things decided in a committee room


-----------------------------------------------

Thank you again Paul

Although you didn't really address my point about flexibility, i can see from your message that you dont agree.

It is my opinion however that I hope this years winner of the MoS never finds out though that their victory was not as full at it could have been, with so many teams being denied playing their match.

All it needs is a bit of tweaking. Perhaps do the draw in December so teams have from the First of Jan to play their First round for instance.

Good luck with the rest of the year

Best regards

Alex

========================================
Message Received: Feb 07 2012, 02:26 PM
From: "P STEWART"
To: alexwilson
Cc: "Golf Secretary"
Subject: Re: fURTHER THOUGHTS re Match in The Mail on Sunday


Hi Alex

This is definitely my last correspondence on this matter.

The single biggest complaint we get is there isn't enough time to play matches in the summer months because of holidays, club events etc. Your idea of allowing more time in the winter period at the expense of the later rounds would no doubt increase such complaints. Our phones have been ringing non stop today from many of the 1200 clubs still left in the men's tournament all wanting to know who they are playing in Rd 2 so the can get on with arranging the matches. To delay things for another week (I've already told you that we can't do an either/or draw) because the 40 or so matches that haven't been played by the deadline would hardly be fair on these of clubs.

Once again I'm sorry that your involvement in this year's competition ended the way it did.

Paul Stewart




From: alex wilson
To: P STEWART
Cc: Golf Secretary
Sent: Tuesday, 7 February 2012, 13:58
Subject: fURTHER THOUGHTS re Match in The Mail on Sunday



Good Afternoon Paul

Thank you for getting back to me with this info and in fact i am sitting at Singing Hills having made a detour from Work.
Can i ask you to answer the following points on a "reply to all" message so that my Secretary can see your answers.

You say that @40 other matches have had to be decided by the coin toss. If our match was the only one in this position that’s one thing but with this number it shows that these have been exceptional circumstances throughout the country.

Why have you not had the flexibility as Tournament Director to DELAY the draw by 7 days to accommodate playing golf matches?

At this stage in the season who cares about one week. This would not be unfair to the rest of the tournament as in this case as the numbers are so large. By not playing this number of games it starts to make a farce of your important Tournament.

Can i ask why you do not have a longer time scale at this time of the year for rounds, when weather can be inclement?

Even with the large numbers of teams in the MoS, a mid Feb date for the end of the first round would still be ok.

Paul....as TD for the MoS I appreciate dealing with these issues is not easy. I just feel with this number of teams you have not thought this through when there were acceptable ways round things.
I look forward to your thoughts.
Best regards
Alex



========================================
Message Received: Feb 07 2012, 01:23 PM
From: "P STEWART"
To: alexwilson
Cc:
Subject: Re: Match in The Mail on Sunday


Sorry Alex but in the end we've had to decide around 40 matches by tossing coin (yours being one of them). Unfortunately for you the coin came down in favour of Hollingbury and I left a message with our contact at your club a while ago.

Sorry.

Rgds
Paul Stewart


From: alex wilson
To: P STEWART
Cc: Golf Secretary
Sent: Tuesday, 7 February 2012, 11:53
Subject: RE: Match in The Mail on Sunday



Good Morning Paul
Thank you for your message and getting back to me so quickly.
I take your point as i know how frustrating this can be, but interestingly if what i suggest can work for the FA CUP another Major National competition, i am sure it can work for you, Especially in the early rounds of this comp that fall in the Winter.
I ask you again to let us decide our game by playing GOLF and not your committee decision.
You will have an answer by next Monday either way.
Very best regards
Alex

========================================
Message Received: Feb 07 2012, 08:27 AM
From: "P STEWART"
To: alexwilson
Cc:
Subject: Match in The Mail on Sunday



Hi Alex

Believe me Alex if we were able to extend the deadline for the 50 or so matches that haven't been played we would. Having either/or matches may work within a club draw mechanism (although in my experience both players/pairs are usually eliminated if they haven't played by the deadline in a club comp.) but I'm afraid it doesn't in a national competition such as ours.

We'll let you know the outcome of the coin toss later today.

Sorry.

Paul Stewart
Tournament Referee




Good Evening

Very disappointed to see your message below that i have seen for the first time Monday evening.

Being a competition organiser myself of matchplays i fully understand the deadline issue but surly in these instances there has to be a weeks leeway, especially in the first round during the winter.

Can i suggest you add us and Hollingbury in as a either/or in the draw, with an understanding that the winner would be an away side in the next round. Also we would HAVE to send you a decision either way next Monday or BOTH be out.

Lets decide this by golf and not by committee decision....please

Alex



========================================
Message Received: Feb 06 2012, 10:08 AM
From: "Draw Mailgolf"
To:
Cc:
Subject: RE: COURSE CLOSED re Mail on Sunday Golf Classic 2012 - Men - Round One draw


Whilst we are sorry that extreme weather conditions have prevented golf being played this weekend, no extensions can be offered. Those remaining matches unplayed by the deadline tomorrow will be decided by the Tournament Referee tossing a coin, and we have advised him of the circumstances which lead to you playing the last weekend. We will advise the losers, and the second round draw will be sent to the winners.



Hamish Webb

Tournament Director





From: alex wilson
Sent: 05 February 2012 14:48
To: Draw Mailgolf
Cc: Golf Secretary; s_coe1@sky.com
Subject: COURSE CLOSED re Mail on Sunday Golf Classic 2012 - Men - Round One draw



Good Morning

Sorry to report that the Singing Hills V Hollingbury match in the Men's competition slated for today fell victim to the snow in the South this weekend.

We have agreed to play next Sunday. I trust this is ok as of course i have no way of communicating this quickly. I know we are on deadline on this.

I will send you the result ASAP next Sunday.

Thank you for your understanding and both clubs will make every effort not to pass next week as a deadline, and will get a result to you.

Very best regards

Alex Wilson

MOS Organiser Singing Hills Golf Club

 

[CMAC]

Interesting Read Alex. I think the Organisers are damned if they do and damned if they dont!

It's unfortunate........ would you have posted this if the coin toss was in your favour?

 

[AmandaJR]

I think it's a tough pill to swallow but can see the organisers viewpoint for sure.

I did wonder how many clubs would have left it til the last possible day and that was Sunday and it snowed. A weather postponement would always be possible in Jan so a risk to leave it so late.

 

[alexgolf]

Interesting Read Alex. I think the Organisers are damned if they do and damned if they dont!

It's unfortunate........ would you have posted this if the coin toss was in your favour?

Yes Darth, thats a good point but i think i would as the thing is unfair.

I agree the party that feels hard done by would always complain, but to be fair the organiser at Hollingbury also has complained to the MoS.

Our problem was for one reason or other a lack of dates in the first place, but as i say if it was just us that would be one thing. The MoS has said that 40 to 50 clubs did not play their first round match

That cant be right in making a "proper" competition...and yes you are correct. TD's have a dificult balancing act to make. The fact that SO many clubs were involved here makes me think there could have been a better way out

A

 

[rosecott]

No complaints here - we won the toss after our match was snowed off. Swings and roundabouts - there's no margin for extensions as the next round must be played by 3rd March.

 

[pokerjoke]

I agree its unfortunate,being an organiser is a nightmare sometimes.
The organiser has to make tough decisions.
It wont please everyone unfortunately.

 

[alexgolf]

I think it's a tough pill to swallow but can see the organisers viewpoint for sure.

I did wonder how many clubs would have left it til the last possible day and that was Sunday and it snowed. A weather postponement would always be possible in Jan so a risk to leave it so late.

Agreed...but as i suggest in one of my messages....give MORE time to play.....This happens most years in the first round with bad weather.

 

[alexgolf]

I agree its unfortunate,being an organiser is a nightmare sometimes.
The organiser has to make tough decisions.
It wont please everyone unfortunately.

I slightly disagree with you poker....A good TD earns his corn when things go wrong.....when the sun shines and there are no decisions to give golf is easy.

All i wanted to do was play golf not have a coin toss

 

[JustOne]

40-50 does seem a lot, until you notice that there's 1200 clubs.

Wasn't in in some kind of small print that a coin toss would decide any matches that failed to make the deadline? If so then that's a risk any clubs would be taking should they decide to play on the last day.

 

[rosecott]

Agreed...but as i suggest in one of my messages....give MORE time to play.....This happens most years in the first round with bad weather.

The tournament organiser has to work backwards from the date of the final. If that means that the early rounds are a bit compressed, that's how it has to be. You wouldn't want to get through 4 rounds or so and be told your next round is in 10 days time when half you first choices are on holiday.

 

[Imurg]

In my experience of these type of Matches - as well as internal club M/Plays, arranging a date has always been tricky, is often left to the last possible moment and then is always, at this time of year, subject to the weather.

At the end of the day, the rules of the competiton are laid out - I suspect - and although you may want to play on a date past the deadline, the Organisers obviously feel you can't. It's disappointing for sure but with the next round needing to be played by early March it doesn't leave much time to get those in.
They could start the first round earlier but you could still get the same issues no matter how early you begin.

 

[3offTheTee]

It is unfortunate and I offer my sympathies.

Sure that they have some opt out that the decision of The Committee is final.

If they don't bet they have next year!

 

[rosecott]

It is unfortunate and I offer my sympathies.

Sure that they have some opt out that the decision of The Committee is final.

If they don't bet they have next year!

It's laid out in the competition rules what happens if the match is not played by the final date.

 

[AmandaJR]

This reminded me to check the draw and we're at home in Round 2

 

[pokerjoke]

I slightly disagree with you poker....A good TD earns his corn when things go wrong.....when the sun shines and there are no decisions to give golf is easy.

All i wanted to do was play golf not have a coin toss

I did say sometimes.
I agree he earns his corn when things go wrong.
I feel you pain of losing by coin toss,i know i wouldnt be happy.
Maybe this comp has just got too big,and they will have to reduce entries next year.

 

[bladeplayer]

You may go back & have a look at the entry form or rules of the comp , if it states in either of these that a coin toss will decide the result in the event of an unavoidable delay then as rubbish as it seem you just have to accept it ..
if it doesnt then you have a challange to it , i think you will find there will be a statement something like ,

.. the organising committe decisions will final in the event of any contraversy etc etc etc ..


Covers alot of grey areas that 1 ..

 

[HotDogAssassin]

If they stated at the beginning what process would be followed and they have done it, then I don't see where there is cause for complaint, just frustration which is understandable.

Are you still going to play next Sunday just to see which team would have progressed if golf not coin toss had been the decider?

 

[DCB]

What was the timescale between the draw being made public and the cut off date for Rnd 1 ?

 

[TheJezster]

It does sound harsh, but looking at it, the match was scheduled at the very last minute, and the 40 clubs this affects is only about 3% of the whole competition. You cant expect to change deadlines based on 3% of the comp, the 97% who had completed their matches in time have every right to expect the set deadlines to be adhered to.

I know it sucks that you couldnt play on Sunday, but *** happens sometimes. Learn from it and schedule matches earlier next time. Maybe play a friendly with the other club this weekend and have some fun with good old fashioned ribbing and banter. That way you'll still get to play golf

(although hopefully the other side will win to stop you thinking about the "what-if's?") ;-)

 

[rosecott]

8th January draw, 6th February last date for play.