The Divot

[Scrindle]

Hi all,

Quick question about divots if possible. Is there a 'correct' divot that should be taken on an iron swing?

I find that I don't take a divot at all. I scoop the ball off the grass without leaving so much as a mark - is that bad? I've read that irons are designed to compress the ball against the ground and therefore a divot should be taken. How accurate is that?

Can anyone recommend a good general golf technique kind of book with tips and the like in it it that I can have a look through to get some ideas about more specific areas like bunker play (which I'm not too good on generally)?

Thanks.

 

[duncan mackie]

it's more difficult to play the ball without the club having a downward trajectory through the ball, but it's entirely possible to hit the ball cleanly off a concrete path!

"I've read that irons are designed to compress the ball against the ground" = where? I also here this spouted but high speed photography suggests this simply isn't the case. The ball launches from the club face direct, not clubface to ground to air. It's certainly the case that the club head is designed to provide an element of bounce as it contacts the ground after impact.

There are tour professionals who have steep angles of attack, and big divots, and there are those who will simply make a shallow scrape on the ground - the nature of the ground dictating whether there's actually any mark made at all.

 

[Scrindle]

Thanks for the response. I read it in an article about swing technique I think and the desire to hit the ball on the downstrike. At the time it struck me as odd because I remember thinking that if you take a divot, surely it decreases the energy imparted to the ball due to the resistance offered by the ground to the club (however slight), thereby losing you distance. Then again I'm not an expert so who knows...

Good to know I'm fine not taking a divot though :thup:

 

[duncan mackie]

Thanks for the response. I read it in an article about swing technique I think and the desire to hit the ball on the downstrike. At the time it struck me as odd because I remember thinking that if you take a divot, surely it decreases the energy imparted to the ball due to the resistance offered by the ground to the club (however slight), thereby losing you distance.

the energy transfer has already taken place (to the ball) by the time the clubhead comes into contact with the ground (unless you hit it fat!) so taking a divot doesn't affect distance per se.

 

[SocketRocket]

Taking a divot allows you to strike the ball higher on the clubface and out of the sweet spot. This will create better launch conditions.

You dont want to hit the ball into the ground and the loft will stop that happening, the feel of doing it will help to create the correct downward strike with irons though.

 

[duncan mackie]

Taking a divot allows you to strike the ball higher on the clubface and out of the sweet spot. This will create better launch conditions.

sorry but this doesn't make sense.

 

[chrisd]

There are quite a few videos out there that say the club is made to be hit with the shaft leaning forward at impact, which apparently gives the strike of the ball with the club face at the proper manufacturers face angle.

 

[Scrindle]

Taking a divot allows you to strike the ball higher on the clubface and out of the sweet spot. This will create better launch conditions.

I thought the sweet spot was the best place for the club to strike the ball by definition...?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I thought the sweet spot was the best place for the club to strike the ball by definition...?

Recently read that the ball should be struck on the 7th groove up - was a new one on me...probably because to be able to strike the ball on the 7th groove the clubhead has to be descending onto the ball - which is what we generally want and will result in a divot being taken after the strike.

 

[duncan mackie]

Recently read that the ball should be struck on the 7th groove up - was a new one on me...probably because to be able to strike the ball on the 7th groove the clubhead has to be descending onto the ball - which is what we generally want and will result in a divot being taken after the strike.

7th groove is miles away from my clubs SS - between the 4th and 5th. They are relatively small heads though, but not abnormally.

I'm not questioning whether a decending blow is good or bad, but that won't make any difference to where on the face the ball first makes contact - none at all - unless you hit the ground before the ball.

What will make a difference is the centre of the axis of rotation - as your hands get further and further in front of the ball at impact the delofting of the clubface will materially affect where the ball strikes the clubface. Now of course you have to hit a decending blow to create the backspin to get the ball in the air In practice though, for most golfers this isn't going to move the ball impact point more that 2 grooves, and that's assuming everything else stays the same.

 

[Foxholer]

Recently read that the ball should be struck on the 7th groove up - was a new one on me...probably because to be able to strike the ball on the 7th groove the clubhead has to be descending onto the ball - which is what we generally want and will result in a divot being taken after the strike.

I don't think it's the 7th groove on those (McDaddy) wedges with 21 or 22 grooves!

Certainly the 'sweet spot' is the place to hit!

Provided any divot starts after the ball, it's not essential that there is or isn't an actual divot. The presence of one simply means that the club-head was still travelling downwards after it hits the ball.

I too am a 'picker' - normally simply leaving a 'bruise' on the grass. To do so requires a tiny amount more accuracy, because the tolerances are slightly tighter, but leaving a divot every time does not guarantee consistent striking either.

Just don't start the divot before you hit the ball!

Shape of the divot can also tell you quite a bit about the actual shot. For straight shots, they should be even across and arcing very slightly to the left of the target - reflecting the arc the club took after impact.

Now of course you have to hit a decending blow to create the backspin to get the ball in the air

No you don't. By hitting the ball with the Centre of Gravity below the centre of the ball, spin will be imparted. That's 'basic' Physics. Also. the fact that there is an angle a impact - caused by the loft of the club - will generate spin too. The 4 or 5 degrees of descending angle isn't hugely significant compared to the 58-64 degrees of a lob wedge!

And we are actually advised to hit a Driver with an Ascending strike - and that gets plenty of spin too!

 

[duncan mackie]

"Originally Posted by duncan mackie
Now of course you have to hit a decending blow to create the backspin to get the ball in the air "

No you don't. By hitting the ball with the Centre of Gravity below the centre of the ball, spin will be imparted. That's 'basic' Physics. Also. the fact that there is an angle a impact - caused by the loft of the club - will generate spin too. The 4 or 5 degrees of descending angle isn't hugely significant compared to the 58-64 degrees of a lob wedge!

And we are actually advised to hit a Driver with an Ascending strike - and that gets plenty of spin too!

the danger of including humerous comments in technical threads - even with a ......

dealing with normal shots (a 6/7 iron) basic analysis of a static situation suggests you would have to reduce it's loft through having the hands way in front at impact by about 10 degrees to move the impact position 2 grooves up. That would turn many TM 6 iron's into a 1 iron and you will need every bit of assistance to get the ball in the air and flying like a 6 again!!!

there is also a world of difference between the optimum 2000 rpm of a driver and the 8000 of a wedge - although the relationship between the angle of attack and dynamic loft remain consistent in their effects (as does weighting in all it's guises)

 

[ScienceBoy]

I improved when I visualised it like this.

The face has lots of groves, depending where you strike it you get a different result.:


Grove 1- Total thin, never really gets up enough to go anywhere and the transfer or energy is inefficient. Really feels like a thin.

Grove 2- Decent thin, ball goes near the expected distance but no height. Still really feels like a thin.

Grove 3- Well struck thin, the ball flies well but a little lower than expected and rolls excessively (relative for the club) on landing. It still feels somewhat thin.

Groves 4 & 5- Well struck, the ball flies well, feels really nice and lands soft (relative for the club).

 

[Foxholer]

the danger of including humerous comments in technical threads - even with a ......

:rofl:

Not into subtlety today sorry!

there is also a world of difference between the optimum 2000 rpm of a driver and the 8000 of a wedge - although the relationship between the angle of attack and dynamic loft remain consistent in their effects (as does weighting in all it's guises)

Not really quite sure what you mean above, but the net Driver loft is probably about 12* for the 2k rpm. With the wedges it's more like the actual loft of the club (downward path being not dis-similar to any delofting) so a huge difference.