Texas Scramble Allowances

[Old Skier]

What would they do ?A strongly worded telling off ? They aren’t going to remove a clubs affiliation - can’t impose any levels of financial fines.

They could remove the affiliation if it got that far and then see the exodus of members from the club. Would you remain a member?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

They could remove the affiliation if it got that far and then see the exodus of members from the club. Would you remain a member?

They are not going to remove a clubs affiliation based on a club using different handicap allowances on a team format.

It’s a texas scramble for goodness sake - up until recently it wasn’t even a recognised format and clubs just did whatever they thought was best - I have no doubt there will be many clubs who will continue to use their old format.

 

[D-S]

A local, large Am-Am competition today, 3 out of 4 strokeplay used 7/8 as an allowance. God knows where they dredged that from; it’s even a fraction not a %! Should they be sanctioned? probably not - they’ll get the hang of it by next year.

 

[rulefan]

They have formally threatened such action (dis-affiliation) before in relation to CONGU requirements. No further action was necessary.

 

[Colin L]

Not sure about the rights and wrongs (was there much of a furore about the previous allowances being unfair? - I can’t remember it if there was).
However, played in a local Open scramble yesterday and it was won by a team receiving 13 shots, (so reasonably high‘ish handicappers) on a par 73 course with a net 47, 13 under gross.
My team with 4.5, 10.6, 11.4 and I think 20.0 had 8 shots. We would have needed to shoot 19 under gross to win, also needed to take 4 drives each.
Honestly no point in entering, we could never in a million years have scored that. Is it the allowances?, is it the new handicap indexes? is it good old fashioned banditry? No idea but we won’t be playing this format in an Open anytime soon.

Thanks for a live example. Could you tell us the course and slope rating?

 

[rulefan]

Not sure about the rights and wrongs (was there much of a furore about the previous allowances being unfair? - I can’t remember it if there was).

You probably never saw any complaints because everyone assumed that the conventional 10% had been researched by the authorities and no one had the wherewithal to produce an alternative formula.

Remember when the matchplay allowance was changed from 75% difference to 100% - but only after some serious research had been done.

 

[D-S]

Thanks for a live example. Could you tell us the course and slope rating?

Chipping Sodbury GC, this Thursday 15th July, Open Texas Scramble, Green tees, par 73 CR 71.6, slope 129, 6342 yards. The handicap indexes of the winners were 12.3, 13.5, 16.5 and 18.0 - these were from the start sheet on entry so may have changed a bit, score gross 60 (13 under) net 47 - any other info required?

 

[rulefan]

The WHS calculator gives 12 and 9 strokes. 10% would give 6.0 and 4.7

 

[D-S]

The WHS calculator gives 12 and 9 strokes. 10% would give 6.0 and 4.7

As I said, the HI’s were from the start sheet which was on entry earlier this year so potentially there have been some changes.
The bottom line is we would have to shoot a gross 19 under whilst taking 4 drives of a 20+ handicapper. I believe that this would, almost literally be impossible.
Could be the scramble allowances, could be the ease of manipulation of HI under WHS or something else. This team won by 6.
In another team open we saw a team (2 out of 4 85% allowance) get 99 points to win by 10 in a very big field.

Whatever the reason, this makes these competitions almost farcical and it will be interesting to see if this is a trend continues and whether entrant numbers decrease. Maybe this is all part of the settling process, I hope so.

 

[D-S]

Just one additional point, why are these allowances rounded and not to one decimal point as previousl. Off the top of my head one decimal point allowances were only ever used in scrambles for good reason. Nowadays with the rounding, there are several scores on each number and count back is used to separate teams despite the fact that there could be a 0.9 difference in the relative allowances. This is a bit messy, is there a decent rational?

 

[wjemather]

As I said, the HI’s were from the start sheet which was on entry earlier this year so potentially there have been some changes.
The bottom line is we would have to shoot a gross 19 under whilst taking 4 drives of a 20+ handicapper. I believe that this would, almost literally be impossible.
Could be the scramble allowances, could be the ease of manipulation of HI under WHS or something else. This team won by 6.
In another team open we saw a team (2 out of 4 85% allowance) get 99 points to win by 10 in a very big field.

Whatever the reason, this makes these competitions almost farcical and it will be interesting to see if this is a trend continues and whether entrant numbers decrease. Maybe this is all part of the settling process, I hope so.

You've highlighted where any issues (if there are any) may lie, and it isn't with the allowances. At CS, once you take the outlier away, there were 10 teams separated by 2 strokes with another 7 teams a stroke further back, and just 6 strokes covering 2nd through 35th place (results).

 

[rulefan]

Just one additional point, why are these allowances rounded and not to one decimal point as previousl. Off the top of my head one decimal point allowances were only ever used in scrambles for good reason. Nowadays with the rounding, there are several scores on each number and count back is used to separate teams despite the fact that there could be a 0.9 difference in the relative allowances. This is a bit messy, is there a decent rational?

As strokes are scored in whole numbers so are strokes received. Scramble countbacks are now consistent with the standard process of back 9, 6, 3 etc. for all other formats. The previous decimal adjustment was the odd one out.

 

[D-S]

As strokes are scored in whole numbers so are strokes received. Scramble countbacks are now consistent with the standard process of back 9, 6, 3 etc. for all other formats. The previous decimal adjustment was the odd one out.

I assume it was an ‘odd one out’ for a reason?

 

[Old Skier]

A local, large Am-Am competition today, 3 out of 4 strokeplay used 7/8 as an allowance. God knows where they dredged that from; it’s even a fraction not a %! Should they be sanctioned? probably not - they’ll get the hang of it by next year.

Pro Ams aren’t normally run by affiliated clubs.

 

[Old Skier]

You've highlighted where any issues (if there are any) may lie, and it isn't with the allowances. At CS, once you take the outlier away, there were 10 teams separated by 2 strokes with another 7 teams a stroke further back, and just 6 strokes covering 2nd through 35th place (results).

We run a 3 man Scramble today and had 19 teams within 8 shots with the winning team having two 17 and 1 18 handicap. Not sure what the issue is. If there are problems why don’t clubs just have a scramble with 2 divs.

 

[rulefan]

I assume it was an ‘odd one out’ for a reason?

Only because no one could be bothered to think of an alternative and 10% is easy to calculate

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Only because no one could be bothered to think of an alternative and 10% is easy to calculate

We used 25% combined handicap during one of our scrambles - worked well

 

[Old Skier]

Just one additional point, why are these allowances rounded and not to one decimal point as previousl. Off the top of my head one decimal point allowances were only ever used in scrambles for good reason. Nowadays with the rounding, there are several scores on each number and count back is used to separate teams despite the fact that there could be a 0.9 difference in the relative allowances. This is a bit messy, is there a decent rational?

Worth noting that allowances are calculated on Course Handicap for all forms of play including Scramble. The course handicap is the starting point for everything.

 

[D-S]

Worth noting that allowances are calculated on Course Handicap for all forms of play including Scramble. The course handicap is the starting point for everything.

Of course, not sure why you should have thought they wouldn’t be off course handicap

 

[D-S]

Pro Ams aren’t normally run by affiliated clubs.

As per my post it was an Am-Am not a Pro -Am.