Swing speed increase

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

My course is 5600 yards approx. and we have multiple "short" players on single digits - but you're right, increase their drives to 250 and they'd be far closer to scratch.

Should not the Slope of your place take into account the fact that it's relatively short course. As I understand it the Slope assessment will consider risk at around the 250yd mark off the tee as the challenge for the scratch golfer. If you have risk at 250yds off the tee on holes, then shorter hitters increasing their drives to 250yds+ will be hitting into that risk zone, and if the risk is high then best to play short of that mark in any case.

 

[Jason.H]

Our course has some fairway bunkers that the bigger hitters clear and its the slightly shorter drivers that need to worry about them. I guess adding a bunker further up would be a good idea.

 

[Backsticks]

Should not the Slope of your place take into account the fact that it's relatively short course. As I understand it the Slope assessment will consider risk at around the 250yd mark off the tee as the challenge for the scratch golfer. If you have risk at 250yds off the tee on holes, then shorter hitters increasing their drives to 250yds+ will be hitting into that risk zone, and if the risk is high then best to play short of that mark in any case.

Not really. The Course Rating takes that into account. A scratch golfer will still need to play scratch standard golf whatever the length of the course.
Yes, the best to play short in your example. But that is a specific case, as my point earlier. The case of the 210 yard bunker, makes it worthwhile for the shorter player to lay up, but the longer hitter clears it, so the hazard isnt in his zone. Overall, the longer you are, the more scope you have to both evade risk zones, reducing the number of potential layup cases, so the longer hitter gains on that front. As well as being having a shorter second. And for that shorter second, playing a lower club that the shorter hitter. And faster swingers hit the ball more consistently. Clubhead speed wins in so many ways. Its why it is the fundamental determinant.
OP is right to explore it as a way to improve. Strength and conditioning the key to that door.

 

[Backsticks]

Worth a watch for anyone interested

Interesting case, thanks. Its the gross data that matters for really drawing conclusions, but he is a good example that you can be a good golfer if you are simply long even if the rest of your game is poor. He was off 5, almost entirely based on being able to drive 300 yards, while playing very little golf. He works on his game, and became plus in a short period. Clubhead speed/longest drive, effectively sets anyone's limit.

 

[Backsticks]

It's very interesting. The guy says he dropped 6 shots from his handicap. 3 of them down to driving and the other 3 down to improved short game.

Which on the face of those numbers might suggest driving and short game are equally important, when they arent really. He was already 5. The key to the plus 1 was being able to drive it 300. He just had to get himself together.

 

[sunshine]

Whats your handicap and how far do you hit the ball?

Not sure I understand the relevance of his handicap to the discussion. If he’s a high handicap are his views less valid?

 

[Deleted member 31467]

Which on the face of those numbers might suggest driving and short game are equally important, when they arent really. He was already 5. The key to the plus 1 was being able to drive it 300. He just had to get himself together.

So you didn't watch the bit where he said how he dropped 3 shots down to better driving and 3 shots through better short game?

 

[Deleted member 31467]

Not sure I understand the relevance of his handicap to the discussion. If he’s a high handicap are his views less valid?

Not a question of relevance but curious to understand his playing philosophy. In my experience lower handicappers put more emphasis on short game.

 

[Jason.H]

Hi all,

What’s the best way to increase swing speed. I have been looking into a overspeed stick but thought I’d get some opinions first.

I have a slow swing speed, I use a TS1 driver and my average distance since the start of the year is 175 yards.

Thanks!

A speed stick helps in my experience but you need a radar ie PRGR for club speed.
I found it difficult to increase much more than 10%. Learning better sequencing and getting the body used to swinging faster, a lighter speed stick allows you to do this . I’ve gone from a 220 carry to 240.

 

[Oddsocks]

That quote doesn’t say dropping back is better.
The problem with dropping back is that most people aren’t much more accurate with a fairway wood or long iron.
Then you have the problem of having to hit a longer club for your second. And guess what? Most people aren’t great at hitting longer clubs from the fairway or rough, their dispersion is bigger and they are more likely to hit it into trouble.

But this is where course management comes in. Case in point was last Sunday. 175 yards out on our p5 to take it on in 2. Left is dead, front to back sloping green which is dead long and two deep bunkers either side at the front of the green.

Driver, 9i, pitch to 3ft - sink for birdie.

Distance isn’t the only way to get around a course.

 

[Bdill93]

Should not the Slope of your place take into account the fact that it's relatively short course. As I understand it the Slope assessment will consider risk at around the 250yd mark off the tee as the challenge for the scratch golfer. If you have risk at 250yds off the tee on holes, then shorter hitters increasing their drives to 250yds+ will be hitting into that risk zone, and if the risk is high then best to play short of that mark in any case.

Unfortunately there are very little risks past 200 yards at my club.

Id bet a good amount of money that a scratch golfer at my club is worse than a scratch golfer than at any others - not sure if our slope/ ratings are wrong or not but that's for another thread!

 

[Slab]

But this is where course management comes in. Case in point was last Sunday. 175 yards out on our p5 to take it on in 2. Left is dead, front to back sloping green which is dead long and two deep bunkers either side at the front of the green.

Driver, 9i, pitch to 3ft - sink for birdie.

Distance isn’t the only way to get around a course.

Jeez that's either mighty drive or a par 4 disguised as a par 5

 

[Oddsocks]

Jeez that's either mighty drive or a par 4 disguised as a par 5

It’s not the longest of p5’s and it is slightly down hill, the problem comes from the dead ground all the way along the left along with two very large deep bunkers. I’ve made more birdies from playing short than I’ve made pars going for it.

On the plus side they are extending it by almost 80 yards this year.

 

[sunshine]

Should not the Slope of your place take into account the fact that it's relatively short course.

No of course it doesn't

Thought you would know by now that WHS doesn't equalise handicaps from easy courses and hard courses. Plenty of long debates on this topic on other threads!!!

 

[sunshine]

Going back to the OP, it seems that anecdotal evidence from various posters on here is that speed training works.

I found it difficult to increase much more than 10%.

Depends on your speed, but let's say going from 90mph to 99mph is a massive jump and the distance gains huge. The bonus is that if you have an extra 9mph speed you can dial it down and play with a smooth controlled 90% swing that is as least as fast as your old swing but likely to be considerably more efficient.

 

[Slab]

It’s not the longest of p5’s and it is slightly down hill, the problem comes from the dead ground all the way along the left along with two very large deep bunkers. I’ve made more birdies from playing short than I’ve made pars going for it.

On the plus side they are extending it by almost 80 yards this year.

Sounds like a good course mngt hole

Ours are all 500-550 (from the yellows) so there's no chance of me getting there in two and it'll still take three 'proper' shots for me to get GIR and at too often its a chip on for 4th (maybe no surprise I've never had an eagle )

 

[Springveldt]

A friend of mine swears by SuperSpeed golf. Says it's really helped him.

I did it a few years ago now and my driver swing speed went from around 96 to 103 in about 6 weeks, it definitely works. Now I use them mostly just to warm up with before a round, I'm considering doing their "Project 20" thing they are pushing just now as I've definitely lost speed the last couple of seasons.

If someone is after an extra 5mph without much effort I'd definitely recommend them.

 

[Backsticks]

Not a question of relevance but curious to understand his playing philosophy. In my experience lower handicappers put more emphasis on short game.

I didnt answer it, not because I am precious about my hc, but more to make the point that it isnt relevant to the discussion really. Its 12.3, no cards in since last Oct, but keen to get going again now in the next weeks. Driver carry is 210 to 225.

But my main point is that what I have been saying here is not my philosophy, or coloured by my own play. I am simply passing on what is the view of the main analysts in the game these days.

Big data has allowed some of the misconceptions, such as some are citing here, of the past, to be corrected. It has allowed a new and data anchored perspective, rather than unfounded views that were traditional and based on nothing really. Several elements, such as distance is the key and pretty much defines your hc, dont play shorter simply to narrow your dispersion unless it to avoid a penalty area, etc, are beyond debate now.

 

[Backsticks]

Going back to the OP, it seems that anecdotal evidence from various posters on here is that speed training works.

Depends on your speed, but let's say going from 90mph to 99mph is a massive jump and the distance gains huge. The bonus is that if you have an extra 9mph speed you can dial it down and play with a smooth controlled 90% swing that is as least as fast as your old swing but likely to be considerably more efficient.

Thats not what experts are saying. It seems clear that if you can hit it 99mph, then hit it 99. Dialing back to 90 will cost you more shots in longer second shots than you will gain from any improvement in accuracy.

 

[Deleted member 31467]

I didnt answer it, not because I am precious about my hc, but more to make the point that it isnt relevant to the discussion really. Its 12.3, no cards in since last Oct, but keen to get going again now in the next weeks. Driver carry is 210 to 225.



But my main point is that what I have been saying here is not my philosophy, or coloured by my own play. I am simply passing on what is the view of the main analysts in the game these days.



Big data has allowed some of the misconceptions, such as some are citing here, of the past, to be corrected. It has allowed a new and data anchored perspective, rather than unfounded views that were traditional and based on nothing really. Several elements, such as distance is the key and pretty much defines your hc, dont play shorter simply to narrow your dispersion unless it to avoid a penalty area, etc, are beyond debate now.

Similar carry distance to me but I'm more than 10 shots lower than you. Not sure what that says.....