Swing smoother, hit further!

[351DRIVER]

Big people on average swing faster than small people, there is no debate there

10OMPH from a big guy or small guy will produce the same ball speed

There we go summed it up..

If this were not the case the 500lb guy who swings at 100mph would hit it much further than the 100lb guy who swings at 100mph


I agree with everything Foxholer said with one exception

John Daly when he was Younger could swing every bit as fast as Bubba now, Bubba has longer levers than JD so JDs 128mph swing is more impressive to me than Bubbas but with the same equipment and assuming JD was still able to swing this fast the ball would not care it would go the same distance if they both connected properly

 

[Foxholer]

...
I agree with everything Foxholer said with one exception

John Daly when he was Younger could swing every bit as fast as Bubba now, Bubba has longer levers than JD so JDs 128mph swing is more impressive to me than Bubbas but with the same equipment and assuming JD was still able to swing this fast the ball would not care it would go the same distance if they both connected properly

Happy enough to accept that! And I agree about JD being impressive - certainly some overswing! The Wilson Killer Whale (he used one) was my first serious Driver! Had a graphite insert that must have been some fairly impressive tech to produce!

 

[351DRIVER]

Happy enough to accept that! And I agree about JD being impressive - certainly some overswing! The Wilson Killer Whale (he used one) was my first serious Driver! Had a graphite insert that must have been some fairly impressive tech to produce!

I have actually swung his Wilson Killer Whale
What are the odds !

 

[drdel]

Bit of an issue when the 'science' quoted is nothing to do with the actual 'problem and solution' though!



Most of the above is twaddle! Club-head speed is everything! What the build of the golfer is has little/no bearing on it - except to indicate which 'style' of training that particular golfer should use to increase their speed!

Check out Rod White's findings in the Tutelman stuff in the reference I posted earlier!

And compare the Long Drivers Jamie Sadlowski and Joe Miller!

Bubba Watson is actually a pretty weedy guy - at least compared to the likes of John Daly, JB Holmes and Kiradech Aphibarnrat, yet he's way above them in the Driving Distance stats! Darren Clark and Lee Westwood both GAINED distance when they lost weight (Mass being an important part of momentum)!

If body mass - as opposed to club-head speed - really had an effect on distance, then the Smash Factor calculation (Max Ball-Speed = 1.5 * Club-head speed) would have to also factor in Mass of swinger! As it clearly doesn't, then body mass is NOT a factor!

'Accelerating through impact' has almost no (actually, it's roughly half a percent) benefit to the actual strike - though it's almost certainly a great thought to maximise the impact speed! Again see Tutelman's comparison!

However, physical attributes do contribute to the ability to generate club-head speed! Being relatively tall helps and being physically strong - in the right way - also helps. For those trying to maximise their distance, optimising their physical characteristics can help! But (Long Driver) Jamie Sadlowski's distance would almost certainly decrease if he added body mass - which is why he hasn't!


The above is absolute twaddle!!

Thanks for the insult LP. Clearly you would have failed as an engineer.

If you don't believe momentum has potential energy increased by the mass then I suggest you try driving head on into a 40tonne truck. At the same closing speed your chances of survival is less than if you'd hit a Fiesta ! Fact.

The same is true for any impact between two bodies hence the Rules Of Golf limits to CoR and MoI of Drivers.

However in my short time on the Forum I've learnt that you'll never let facts get in the way of your opinions and insults - pity.

 

[LIG]

Thanks for the insult LP. Clearly you would have failed as an engineer.

If you don't believe momentum has potential energy increased by the mass then I suggest you try driving head on into a 40tonne truck. At the same closing speed your chances of survival is less than if you'd hit a Fiesta ! Fact.

The same is true for any impact between two bodies hence the Rules Of Golf limits to CoR and MoI of Drivers.

However in my short time on the Forum I've learnt that you'll never let facts get in the way of your opinions and insults - pity.

Firstly a question (as I don't recall the rules on MoI of drivers and haven't a copy of the rules to hand) : Is there a limit on MoI of Drivers? I know there is on CoR but...MoI?

Secondly, (to save Foxholer from replying/insulting you again) the bit in red above is ASBOLUTE NONSENSE i.e. it makes no sense. Momentum cannot "have" Potential Energy - they are two very different things. Perhaps you are becoming confused about objects with Potential Energy.

Oh and you quoted Foxholer but insulted LP - another schoolboy error.

 

[SocketRocket]

If you have read TGM by Homer Kelly he explains how there are two effective ways to hit a golf ball. One is the Swinging method and the other is the Hitting method, he explains how they are different but both can be effective. Swinging is a method of letting the clubshaft freewheel through impact and is what some are talking about here. The other 'Hitting' is where the club is pushed through the ball and uses less wrist action but relies more on the pivot of the body to apply leverage and compress the ball.

This guy in the attached video is explaining how to apply leverage by using body pivot to compress the golf ball.

[video=youtube;l0-jv7yQ55Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0-jv7yQ55Q[/video]

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Thanks for the insult LP. Clearly you would have failed as an engineer.

If you don't believe momentum has potential energy increased by the mass then I suggest you try driving head on into a 40tonne truck. At the same closing speed your chances of survival is less than if you'd hit a Fiesta ! Fact.

The same is true for any impact between two bodies hence the Rules Of Golf limits to CoR and MoI of Drivers.

However in my short time on the Forum I've learnt that you'll never let facts get in the way of your opinions and insults - pity.

Excuse me ? Have I missed a post directed towards you or something ?

 

[Foxholer]

Firstly a question (as I don't recall the rules on MoI of drivers and haven't a copy of the rules to hand) : Is there a limit on MoI of Drivers? I know there is on CoR but...MoI?

Secondly, (to save Foxholer from replying/insulting you again) the bit in red above is ASBOLUTE NONSENSE i.e. it makes no sense. Momentum cannot "have" Potential Energy - they are two very different things. Perhaps you are becoming confused about objects with Potential Energy.

Oh and you quoted Foxholer but insulted LP - another schoolboy error.

Thanks LIG! You are absolutely correct! Momentum (Mass * Velocity) is unrelated to Potential Energy! That 40Tonne truck certainly has Kinetic Energy (0.5*40Tonnes*Velocity*Velocity) - which i wouldn't want to get in the way of!

So, yet again....Twaddle! Try reading some school level Physics!

s for you question re MOI...Yes, there is a limit (for Drivers anyway). I think the number is 5900 gm/Square CM. From memory, introduced around the time of the early Nike yellow beasts. I had a Cobra L4V was supposedly labelled that way because it was designed to be at the Limit of all 4 Variables (I think). Bleedin' fugly, Noisy stick that I never really liked!

 

[drdel]

OK, I apologise to LP.

In simple terms the reason two golfers who have identical club-head speed at impact may generate different distances (all other things being equal; launch angle. spin etc) is because one golfer may hit the ball 'harder' because his club is accelerating hard at the instant of impact whereas the other player's club may be decelerating, coasting or not accelerating as 'hard'.

Hence Delc's 'smooth' swing may be better because he has not spent all his energy early and the club is still accelerating rather than coasting or decelerating at the instant of impact.

 

[Three]

In simple terms the reason two golfers who have identical club-head speed at impact may generate different distances (all other things being equal; launch angle. spin etc) is because one golfer may hit the ball 'harder' because his club is accelerating hard at the instant of impact whereas the other player's club may be decelerating, coasting or not accelerating as 'hard'.

Sorry, that's absolute rubbish.

The ball doesn't care about the acceleration or deceleration, the only thing that matters is the speed (all other factors being equal).

 

[Three]

Hence Delc's 'smooth' swing may be better because he has not spent all his energy early and the club is still accelerating rather than coasting or decelerating at the instant of impact.

Again, the rate of acceleration or deceleration is irrelevant.

 

[delc]

I am still hitting the ball impressive distances for my age with my smoother, longer swing. I seem to have more time to complete my swing and I am definitely not slogging at the ball.
Main problem is that even if I go down a club or two from what I am used to, I sometimes go off the back of the green with approach shots.

 

[Foxholer]

...
In simple terms the reason two golfers who have identical club-head speed at impact may generate different distances (all other things being equal; launch angle. spin etc) is because one golfer may hit the ball 'harder' because his club is accelerating hard at the instant of impact whereas the other player's club may be decelerating, coasting or not accelerating as 'hard'.
...

Read this! http://www.tutelman.com/golf/swing/accelerateThru.php

 

[delc]

Sorry, that's absolute rubbish.

The ball doesn't care about the acceleration or deceleration, the only thing that matters is the speed (all other factors being equal).

The great Bobby Jones once claimed that he felt like he was freewheeling through the impact zone, which is the sort of feeling I am getting now getting with my revised swing. If you think about it you have about a second to accelerate the club head to about 100 mph. Accelerating the clubhead after you have hit the ball is a waste of time and effort, although you should still try to swing through to a full finish.

 

[351DRIVER]

OK, I apologise to LP.

In simple terms the reason two golfers who have identical club-head speed at impact may generate different distances (all other things being equal; launch angle. spin etc) is because one golfer may hit the ball 'harder' because his club is accelerating hard at the instant of impact whereas the other player's club may be decelerating, coasting or not accelerating as 'hard'.

Hence Delc's 'smooth' swing may be better because he has not spent all his energy early and the club is still accelerating rather than coasting or decelerating at the instant of impact.

When people say IN SIMPLE TERMS they often are trying to bluff that they have a vast pool of knowledge that they will simplify for the their layaudience in order to help them understand a complex problem.

Problem is, your post like many who post with this caveat is 100% BS

 

[Foxholer]

When people say IN SIMPLE TERMS they often are trying to bluff that they have a vast pool of knowledge that they will simplify for the their layaudience in order to help them understand a complex problem.

Problem is, your post like many who post with this caveat is 100% BS

:thup:

Here's Tutelman's summary of the 'Hands Hit' that Bobby Jones advocated and many players/coaches believe assists club-head speed http://www.tutelman.com/golf/swing/handhit.php

The conclusion is that, while it could well a good/great swing thought, adding wrist torque (the assumption of what this is) actually provides no benefit (unless absolutely perfectly timed, in which case it might add about a foot of carry!) and is significantly more likely to slow the swing down!

 

[351DRIVER]

The reason for accelerating at impact is simply to ensure you do not actually slow down as you approach the ball

It is a great swing thought to have, to accelerate (OR FEEL YOU ARE) through the ball merely to ensure you do not slow down before you actually connect

It is misinterpreted that somehow accelerating at impact makes a big difference, it doesnt, the point is simply to ensure you do not lose speed before you connect with the ball...

i.e. swing to a finish

 

[SocketRocket]

When people say IN SIMPLE TERMS they often are trying to bluff that they have a vast pool of knowledge that they will simplify for the their layaudience in order to help them understand a complex problem.

Problem is, your post like many who post with this caveat is 100% BS

Anyone that posts with a caveat that a different opinion is 100% BS or Twaddle are 100% knobs and need to do a bit of growing up.

It would be interesting to find out if you would use the same language face to face.

 

[351DRIVER]

Anyone that posts with a caveat that a different opinion is 100% BS or Twaddle are 100% knobs and need to do a bit of growing
IF SOMETHING IS 100% BS, NOTHING WRONG WITH SAYING SO

It would be interesting to find out if you would use the same language face to face.

Says the guy who just called someone a knob

FYI yes, i am pretty blunt and if someone says something that is stupid, rather than nod politely I will say, you know what you said sounds good but is stupid, its a trait i am blessed with.

There is a simple way to avoid this though, do not start preaching to people IN SIMPLE TERMS then talk utter ****, simples.

Dont you know who I am?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wysX_VNiX6U

 

[Three]

Anyone that posts with a caveat that a different opinion is 100% BS or Twaddle are 100% knobs and need to do a bit of growing up.

It would be interesting to find out if you would use the same language face to face.

You need to learn the difference between a subject that requires an opinion, versus a subject that is based on facts.

As an official "Long Driver" the guy knows his facts. He's more than entitled to dismiss unquantifiable "opinions" from those who are talking out their posterior.

The physics of how a ball goes certain distances is based on fact, not opinion. How golfers "feel" during their swing is one thing, what they are actually doing is normally completely different.