Suspension of search.....

[palindromicbob]

I've just spoken to a rules official at the R&A and she' not sure herself.
She will however speak to her colleagues and call me back this afternoon with a decision.

Looking forward to the response. No word back for me yet but then you should have more contacts Bob. I still think that equity would dictate the clock gets paused.

EDIT: I should hit refresh more often!


Now the response is in glad to see it make sense and is fair. So that 5up timer thingy is officially a waste of money. Now if only I had knowledge of app programming. I could make one with a pause feature that beeped and flashed as time was running out. Where's my app programming for dummies book. I'm going to make a fortune!!!

 

[bobmac]

very fairly worded question, clear answer. well done Bob

Thanks, and it kind of restores your faith in common sense

 

[JustOne]

Well, I spoke to the R&A and explained the following situation
2 golfers tee off at a right to left dogleg par 4 and player A hits it into the rough on the corner of the dog leg in line with the green.
They move forward to look for the ball and after 2 mins searching, the group behind have appeared on the tee behind them ready to tee off.
In line with etiquette, and not wanting to hold them up, they call the following group to play through. For their own safety, they cross over to the other side of the fairway on the right to be out of line of the golfers teeing off.
When the players have played through which takes 5 minutes, the 2 ball then cross the fairway back to where the ball is still missing. Are they allowed to continue searching for the remaining 3 minutes?
The answer given by the R&A was Yes.
As long as the total searching time wasn't more than 5 minutes and they were no where near the ball while the following group where teeing off they can resume their search.

Hardly groundbreaking,.... only a knob would think otherwise.

 

[bluewolf]

So all you have to remember when allowing the group behind to play through, is to stand a fair distance away from where the ball was lost. Quality.

 

[daymond]

The response from the R&A is exactly as I expected. I was going to post yesterday that if you go to search for a ball and after two minutes you see a crocadile close by you beat a hasty retreat, wait for the croc. to move off and then continue the search for the remaining three minutes. It may sound fanciful but trust me it can and does happen in florida.

 

[MashieNiblick]

Well there you go. Sensible answer from the R&A. I think we all thought that anyway.

 

[Colin L]

Thanks for going to the trouble Bob. It's a great help to get a ruling like this when it doesn't seem possible to make it on the basis of the rule book. That's what the Decisions are about and it would be good to see this one end up as a Decision.


No supper for me tonight - got to save up that 25p somehow.

 

[JustOne]

No supper for me tonight - got to save up that 25p somehow.

I'm making a list of things to spend it on............

 

[Iaing]

Thanks for taking the time to get a ruling on this Bob. Common sense applies.

Now, how would you define when the 5 minutes start ?
Say you've a blind drive and you hit it offline and hear it hit timber. If this happens to me, as soon as I'm over the hill I'm looking for my ball, even if I'm just scanning the fairway in case it got a lucky bounce.
So does the 5 minutes start when I crest the hill, or is it when my playing partners sigh, swear, put their bags down and come and help me try to find it ?

 

[palindromicbob]

I still reckon this is covered under equity as the ruling is what is fair within the rules.

 

[CMAC]

VERY interesting discussion- in the real world this wont and doesnt happen........

can you imagine the atmosphere and words exchanged if the group walked back to the search area after 5 mins, right onto the 'lost' ball and someone called it lost as you've been standing across the fairway for that time.......

@Bob did this R&A official say they will post if officially on the R&A website now for the rest of the planet to know this stupid rule is now void?

 

[bobmac]

VERY interesting discussion- in the real world this wont and doesnt happen........

I think you'll find there was a few on here who would have ruled that the time was up.

Bob did this R&A official say they will post if officially on the R&A website now for the rest of the planet to know this stupid rule is now void?

I didn't ask.
All I will say is, if you ever have a problem with a rule, ask your pro. If your still not happy, ask your pro to check it with the R&A .

 

[Foxholer]

VERY interesting discussion- in the real world this wont and doesnt happen........

Er. This is exactly what should - and generally does happen.

can you imagine the atmosphere and words exchanged if the group walked back to the search area after 5 mins, right onto the 'lost' ball and someone called it lost as you've been standing across the fairway for that time.......

And it's precisely to avoid this happening (which a few on here did think should be the case) that this ruling was requested.

All I will say is, if you ever have a problem with a rule, ask your pro. If your still not happy, ask your pro to check it with the R&A .

Thanks Bob. Though more than once I've heard club Pros making rulings, that have either been out of date or simply wrong! They should certainly have a copy of The Rules to hand though (and access to Decisions), and be prepared to contact R&A under similar circumstances to these.

 

[bobmac]

Thanks Bob. Though more than once I've heard club Pros making rulings, that have either been out of date or simply wrong! They should certainly have a copy of The Rules to hand though (and access to Decisions), and be prepared to contact R&A under similar circumstances to these.

No-one's perfect.
That's why I said "If your still not happy, ask your pro to check it with the R&A"

 

[CMAC]

Er. This is exactly what should - and generally does happen.

.

?

 

[Colin L]

@Bob did this R&A official say they will post if officially on the R&A website now for the rest of the planet to know this stupid rule is now void?

What "stupid" rule has been made void? What we now have is a very helpful clarification from R&A to allow in the specific circumstances described, a search to be interrupted - the sort of "case law" help we get from the Decisions. The Definition of a lost" ball is not changed nor is the procedure. Maybe this one will end up in the Decisions Book some day.

Bobmac is right that several of us could not see a way to arrive at a ruling to permit a search to be interrupted based on what was available to us in the Rules and the lack of a relevant Decision. We might still maintain that on that basis we were right. But the really helpful outcome of this discussion (which I have found very enjoyable, thanks to all) is that we now have this additional clarification from R&A that would be the basis of the ruling that was obviously the one that seemed right and fair - but which was not available without that additional input from R&A.

This was not a unique situation in which the application of the Rules does not seem to produce the answer people would like, the answer that people would generally think fair. Dare I mention water-filled bunkers without starting a 20 page thread?

 

[bladeplayer]

Well, I spoke to the R&A and explained the following situation
2 golfers tee off at a right to left dogleg par 4 and player A hits it into the rough on the corner of the dog leg in line with the green.
They move forward to look for the ball and after 2 mins searching, the group behind have appeared on the tee behind them ready to tee off.
In line with etiquette, and not wanting to hold them up, they call the following group to play through. For their own safety, they cross over to the other side of the fairway on the right to be out of line of the golfers teeing off.
When the players have played through which takes 5 minutes, the 2 ball then cross the fairway back to where the ball is still missing. Are they allowed to continue searching for the remaining 3 minutes?
The answer given by the R&A was Yes.
As long as the total searching time wasn't more than 5 minutes and they were no where near the ball while the following group where teeing off they can resume their search.

Deserves a mention in the rules page of the mag this one, for readers that are not forumers .. good work Bob thanks again

 

[CMAC]

What "stupid" rule has been made void?

seriously?

R&A have re-clarified the rule so the strict rule of 5 mins regardless is now moot according to Bobs official official

 

[Kellfire]

seriously?

R&A have re-clarified the rule so the strict rule of 5 mins regardless is now moot according to Bobs official official

The rule isn't void, it's merely been clarified.

 

[CMAC]

The rule isn't void, it's merely been clarified.

ergo changing the rule, imo that means the definition has changed........however, until they make it official the old definition stands

however, as it never happens in real life its moot anyway