Stats - fairways, GIR, up & down - what's good?

[Bwgan]

I use Game Golf and for the 19 rounds post lockdown my stats are: (Im 13 hcap, judging against the states of a 10&20 handicap )
First figure me, next 10 hcap, next 20 hcap
FIR 45%, 48%, 43%
GIR 32%, 37%, 21%
Puts 1.9, 1.8, 2.0
Scramble 17% 21%, 10%
100 Yards in 78%, 62%, 50%
100-150 yrds 51%, 46%, 33%
150+ yards 21%, 28%, 21%

So Based on %'s for each area i'm a:
FIR 15hcapper
GIR 14hcapper ish
Puts 15hcapper
Scramble 13hcapper
100 Yards in close to scratch
100-150 yrds 5 hcapper
150+ yards 20 hcapper

So basically my strength is between 0-150 yards to lower my handicap. I just need to get there

 

[Orikoru]

Prac


Practice your chipping and putting looking at them stats

I think I just need to up my standards. I consider myself (or used to) decent at chip and runs, but I'm too accepting of a chip and two putts, I really want to start getting up and down more.

 

[Orikoru]

personally i don't bother with stats, but surely you must know if you are missing fairways or greens on a reg basis without stats?

I would not recall if I hit 60% or 40% of fairways on a round. I would only remember if I was really bad off the tee, like the one round where I only hit 20%. But I concede that knowing I hit 40 or 60 isn't of massive benefit. I'm trying to hit fairways on the next round regardless. It's just a point of interest I suppose.

 

[Deleted member 3432]

I think I just need to up my standards. I consider myself (or used to) decent at chip and runs, but I'm too accepting of a chip and two putts, I really want to start getting up and down more.

Can you play more than a chip and run?

If not as a minimum you need to be able to play something with a lofted club over bunkers etc.

Do set your standards higher, be looking to hole out with easier chip shots. This try and get inside a dustbin lid advice you often hear is garbage if you can forgive the pun.

 

[patricks148]

I would not recall if I hit 60% or 40% of fairways on a round. I would only remember if I was really bad off the tee, like the one round where I only hit 20%. But I concede that knowing I hit 40 or 60 isn't of massive benefit. I'm trying to hit fairways on the next round regardless. It's just a point of interest I suppose.

true but rfor instance today i dodn't use driver on 10 holes, 4 were the par 3's so its quite easy to know how many out of the remaining 8 i hit

 

[Orikoru]

Can you play more than a chip and run?

If not as a minimum you need to be able to play something with a lofted club over bunkers etc.

Do set your standards higher, be looking to hole out with easier chip shots. This try and get inside a dustbin lid advice you often hear is garbage if you can forgive the pun.

Well obviously I don't try and chip and run it through a bunker haha. If I can get it rolling ASAP I try and play a chip and run. If I can't then yes I'll go 56° over a bunker, which I'm ok at, but I'm less likely to get up and down with it I would say. It's also something I'll have to do less often.

Nah I don't think about dustbin lids. I just think about putting it as close as possible, but I wouldn't say I really think hard about holing it, so maybe that should be thought process going forward. Because if I think back, I'm more likely to leave the chip and run 5 feet short than I am to run it past. So that change in thought process may be helpful.

 

[nickjdavis]

I've had a love/hate relationship with stats for a while now.
Many people don't dig deep enough into them for them to be relevant. Why do you miss greens? Is it because your iron play isnt accurate enough or is it that your driving doesnt put you in a position to hit the green..?
Fairways hit - a ball 2 inches off the fairway on one side could be better than being in the middle of the fairway depending on the hole and pin position.
You could, literally, be 2 inches on the fairway of a 400 yard hole and still have 300 to go...
GiR is ok..speaks for itself. Make more GiR and your putting stats will go up.
Miss more greens and your up and down stat goes up.
Distances - all the stat gathering apps and units rely on GPS from one position to another.
All you're measuring is total distance - carry and roll. Roll can be next to nothing or it can be 60+ yards depending on conditions. On my course you can get 80 to 100 yards on some holes.
In my opinion, unless you're going to dive deep into the numbers, stats distract from the game.

This.

Individual stats taken in isolation are irrelevant.

Greens in Regulation should be "Greens in Regulation where you have put yourself in a position to hit the green after your first shot". - whats the point in marking it as a missed green in reg when your real issue was that you topped your tee shot or put it behind a tree?

Fairways hit....why count it as a miss when you are in the first cut but have a clear 120yd shot to the green?

"Trouble off the tee" is a far better assessment of your "driving game"...i.e. a measurement of when your tee shot put you in a position where you could not reasonably hit the green in regulation.

Putts per round....useless in isolation if you dont know how many greens you are hitting.

Putts per green in regulation....better but what happens when you are taking over 2 putts per green in reg? does your putting need improving or does your approach play need improving so your first putt is shorter? most amateurs whos first putt is typically longer than 30ft are going to have poor putting stats.

First putt distance...not much use if you dont know how far away from the green the approach shot was played from.

When I had one of these tracking devices my only interest was...

1) how often did my tee shot prevent me from hitting the green in regulation
2) when i had a chance of hitting the green in regulation how often did i do it
3) when i hit the green from 160yds and in how long was my first putt vs. approach distance
4) how many putts did it take me to get down vs. first putt distance

 

[Orikoru]

This.

Individual stats taken in isolation are irrelevant.

Greens in Regulation should be "Greens in Regulation where you have put yourself in a position to hit the green after your first shot". - whats the point in marking it as a missed green in reg when your real issue was that you topped your tee shot or put it behind a tree?

Fairways hit....why count it as a miss when you are in the first cut but have a clear 120yd shot to the green?

"Trouble off the tee" is a far better assessment of your "driving game"...i.e. a measurement of when your tee shot put you in a position where you could not reasonably hit the green in regulation.

Putts per round....useless in isolation if you dont know how many greens you are hitting.

Putts per green in regulation....better but what happens when you are taking over 2 putts per green in reg? does your putting need improving or does your approach play need improving so your first putt is shorter? most amateurs whos first putt is typically longer than 30ft are going to have poor putting stats.

First putt distance...not much use if you dont know how far away from the green the approach shot was played from.

When I had one of these tracking devices my only interest was...

1) how often did my tee shot prevent me from hitting the green in regulation
2) when i had a chance of hitting the green in regulation how often did i do it
3) when i hit the green from 160yds and in how long was my first putt vs. approach distance
4) how many putts did it take me to get down vs. first putt distance

But I'm in charge of what it gets logged as. So if I just put it in the semi-rough in no danger, I could easily log that as a fairway hit in my app. And just log a missed fairway for seriously missed fairways.

 

[Grant85]

This.

Individual stats taken in isolation are irrelevant.

Greens in Regulation should be "Greens in Regulation where you have put yourself in a position to hit the green after your first shot". - whats the point in marking it as a missed green in reg when your real issue was that you topped your tee shot or put it behind a tree?

Fairways hit....why count it as a miss when you are in the first cut but have a clear 120yd shot to the green?

"Trouble off the tee" is a far better assessment of your "driving game"...i.e. a measurement of when your tee shot put you in a position where you could not reasonably hit the green in regulation.

Putts per round....useless in isolation if you dont know how many greens you are hitting.

Putts per green in regulation....better but what happens when you are taking over 2 putts per green in reg? does your putting need improving or does your approach play need improving so your first putt is shorter? most amateurs whos first putt is typically longer than 30ft are going to have poor putting stats.

First putt distance...not much use if you dont know how far away from the green the approach shot was played from.

When I had one of these tracking devices my only interest was...

1) how often did my tee shot prevent me from hitting the green in regulation
2) when i had a chance of hitting the green in regulation how often did i do it
3) when i hit the green from 160yds and in how long was my first putt vs. approach distance
4) how many putts did it take me to get down vs. first putt distance

All valid points, but without a fancy system to work out more detailed stats - these simply stats can still build a useful picture.

And of course with your metric, you could still hit a poor tee shot but get lucky with a gap in the trees, or a bounce that helps you to have a shot onto the green. FIR is rudimentary, but there's not many holes you can't get to from the fairway - unless you hit it very short. And as others said, if it's a tight dogleg and you are genuinely aiming for the 1st cut, then you can mark yourself down for an FIR.

And things are going to average out over 8 or 10 rounds. So if you happen to have a few holes on a day where you hit it close and single putt from 2 foot that almost anyone would hole it's hardly going to skew your last 5 or 10 round averages, that will be a far better reflection of your ability in certain areas.

 

[sunshine]

It's useful to keep stats for yourself, but little value in comparing to others on here (and in general). You play at a short and tight course, your stats will be very different from a similar handicap golfer playing at a long wide open course.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

One of the good things about SS2 which I had used for collecting my stats (and I think Golfshake do) is it set a target based on my handicap which change as my handicap went up/down. I took my 2018 stats (last full year I collected)

Key stats (Hcap: 13)

Fairways Hit: 49% (Hcap Std: 12)
Greens In Reg: 16% (Hcap Std: 16)
Putts Per Round: 32.65 (Hcap Std: 12)
Sand Saves: 24% (Hcap Std: 7)
Birdie Conversion: 12% (Hcap Std: 18)
Par Scrambles: 17% (Hcap Std: 18)
Driving Distance: n/a (Hcap Std: n/a)
Penalties Per Round: 0.88 (Hcap Std: 9)

The stats I am more interested in these days would be strokes gained/lost and SS2 doesn't give those. The apps I've seen that gives this tend to want you have the phone on you and I find that distracting or you'd spend so long loading a round in after to make it too much of a pain. I was also getting bogged down in the numbers and now I don't record them (might if I can resolve the strokes gained issue)

 

[Orikoru]

One of the good things about SS2 which I had used for collecting my stats (and I think Golfshake do) is it set a target based on my handicap which change as my handicap went up/down. I took my 2018 stats (last full year I collected)

Key stats (Hcap: 13)

Fairways Hit: 49% (Hcap Std: 12)
Greens In Reg: 16% (Hcap Std: 16)
Putts Per Round: 32.65 (Hcap Std: 12)
Sand Saves: 24% (Hcap Std: 7)
Birdie Conversion: 12% (Hcap Std: 18)
Par Scrambles: 17% (Hcap Std: 18)
Driving Distance: n/a (Hcap Std: n/a)
Penalties Per Round: 0.88 (Hcap Std: 9)

The stats I am more interested in these days would be strokes gained/lost and SS2 doesn't give those. The apps I've seen that gives this tend to want you have the phone on you and I find that distracting or you'd spend so long loading a round in after to make it too much of a pain. I was also getting bogged down in the numbers and now I don't record them (might if I can resolve the strokes gained issue)

Strokes gained would be way too long to figure out, sod doing that. I only input what's on Hole 19 since I'm using it anyway for GPS and score, so all you need to add is number of putts and click whether I hit the fairway or missed left or right. I wouldn't probably go to any higher detail than that really. (The GIR and up and downs it figures out itself as discussed earlier.)

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Strokes gained would be way too long to figure out, sod doing that. I only input what's on Hole 19 since I'm using it anyway for GPS and score, so all you need to add is number of putts and click whether I hit the fairway or missed left or right. I wouldn't probably go to any higher detail than that really. (The GIR and up and downs it figures out itself as discussed earlier.)

I think strokes gained (or so I've read/heard) is a more viable way of measuring progress so I'd be happy to have the information if I didn't have to faff about with an app and hiving my phone in the pocket.

 

[MrC]

Personally I would measure against myself and what I am trying to do.

Stats are good but misleading as has been said

For example the 1st at my course is 400+ par 4. OOB on right. Wide open on left. So I try to hit a driver into the left rough as that gives me the maximum miss and the maximum chance of hitting green with second. Technically I miss the fairway by hitting where I aimed.

Our 3rd is 300 yard par 4. 5 or 6 iron needed at centre of fairway. In reality I should never miss this fairway.

When I get home from a round I reflect on how I played and often the scores or stats are different but that’s golf isn’t it

 

[sunshine]

Personally I would measure against myself and what I am trying to do.

Stats are good but misleading as has been said

For example the 1st at my course is 400+ par 4. OOB on right. Wide open on left. So I try to hit a driver into the left rough as that gives me the maximum miss and the maximum chance of hitting green with second. Technically I miss the fairway by hitting where I aimed.

Our 3rd is 300 yard par 4. 5 or 6 iron needed at centre of fairway. In reality I should never miss this fairway.

When I get home from a round I reflect on how I played and often the scores or stats are different but that’s golf isn’t it

Absolutely spot on.

We have a short par 4 fronted by a large bunker. I've seen some of the bigger hitters go for the green, with the expectation that a well struck drive is almost certainly going to find the bunker. The chances of getting up and down from greenside bunker or rough are higher than from 100 yards out in the fairway. But the driving stats tell you this is a missed fairway.

Measure your stats, not other people's.

 

[sunshine]

One of the good things about SS2 which I had used for collecting my stats (and I think Golfshake do) is it set a target based on my handicap which change as my handicap went up/down. I took my 2018 stats (last full year I collected)

Key stats (Hcap: 13)

Fairways Hit: 49% (Hcap Std: 12)
Greens In Reg: 16% (Hcap Std: 16)
Putts Per Round: 32.65 (Hcap Std: 12)
Sand Saves: 24% (Hcap Std: 7)
Birdie Conversion: 12% (Hcap Std: 18)
Par Scrambles: 17% (Hcap Std: 18)
Driving Distance: n/a (Hcap Std: n/a)
Penalties Per Round: 0.88 (Hcap Std: 9)

The stats I am more interested in these days would be strokes gained/lost and SS2 doesn't give those. The apps I've seen that gives this tend to want you have the phone on you and I find that distracting or you'd spend so long loading a round in after to make it too much of a pain. I was also getting bogged down in the numbers and now I don't record them (might if I can resolve the strokes gained issue)

I'd be very sceptical of these handicap standard guides.

If your GIR% goes up, I assume the GIR hcap std will drop. However, your putts per round will also increase, so the hcap std PPR will also increase.

 

[Orikoru]

Absolutely spot on.

We have a short par 4 fronted by a large bunker. I've seen some of the bigger hitters go for the green, with the expectation that a well struck drive is almost certainly going to find the bunker. The chances of getting up and down from greenside bunker or rough are higher than from 100 yards out in the fairway. But the driving stats tell you this is a missed fairway.

Measure your stats, not other people's.

That is definitely not true for me.

 

[sunshine]

That is definitely not true for me.

Do they even have sand in the bunkers at Haste Hill? Can't you just putt out from them?

 

[Orikoru]

Do they even have sand in the bunkers at Haste Hill? Can't you just putt out from them?

I was genuinely tempted to try that in my match last weekend by the 10th green, but I was too afraid of looking ridiculous if it didn't work.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I'd be very sceptical of these handicap standard guides.

If your GIR% goes up, I assume the GIR hcap std will drop. However, your putts per round will also increase, so the hcap std PPR will also increase.

The handicap guideline is a guide based on my playing handicap and so won't vary unless my handicap moves.