Statistics

DeanoMK

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The Chasing Scratch Pod had Mark Broadie on their latest episode and he actually said that the strokes gained method was actually invented for amateur golfers.

If you want to keep stats, in a relatively effortless way, then I recommend Shot Scope as they now use shots gained and you can adjust to see how they compare against others in your handicap range.
 

evemccc

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We’ve all heard of ‘feel’ players, well, what about a ‘feel’ approach to keeping stats..

If you pure an iron but the range-finder was old/faulty or if you misjudged the wind then the shot could over or under-hit the green...A miss is recorded in the stats but technically the swing was very sound. The fault lies elsewhere.

Or, you thin an approach shot but it ends up in the middle of the green - as can easily happen, the stats record a good approach shot but technically you definitely can improve — hence it’s important to take a qualitative ‘feel’ approach to your golf and you should be aware of where you should focus on areas to improve — stats don’t tell the full story

I think stats, correctly applied and understood are important in golf. But in a world overdosing on big data, its important to not detach the mind from decisions and to rely solely on stats, and I am very aware of what clubs and types of shots I tend to hit well and what I need to work on, irrespective of my scorecard
 
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Hobbit

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We’ve all heard of ‘feel’ players, well, what about a ‘feel’ approach to keeping stats..

If you pure an iron but the range-finder was old/faulty or if you misjudged the wind then the shot could over or under-hit the green...A miss is recorded in the stats but technically the swing was very sound. The fault lies elsewhere.

Or, you thin an approach shot but it ends up in the middle of the green - as can easily happen, the stats record a good approach shot but technically you definitely can improve — hence it’s important to take a qualitative ‘feel’ approach to your golf and you should be aware of where you should focus on areas to improve — stats don’t tell the full story

I think stats, correctly applied and understood are important in golf. But in a world overdosing on big data, its important to not detach the mind from decisions and to rely solely on stats, and I am very aware of what clubs and types of shots I tend to hit well and what I need to work on, irrespective of my scorecard
One offs, as you describe, are exactly that, one offs. And in a decent sample size they will have very little bearing on the stats. Having 1 thinned chip in 5 rounds of only 50% GIR = <3%. If I thinned 5 chips I’d definitely consider it.
 

Springveldt

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What's more important. GiR or number of putts?
To me there is a big inter-relationship between these two.
Not that I am counting. 😂
Neither. Proximity to the hole is much more important (depending on finishing position obviously) according to stokes gained.

Tracking strokes gained can be done automatically with Arccos or ShotScope but you can also do it manually with the Golf Metrics app but you have to pay an annual fee for it. Think I’d rather buy the tech that tracks it automatically.
 
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I’ll maybe start worrying about my golfing stats once I have sorted out how to hit my new irons in roughly the right direction most of the time, and then after working out how far I might want to hit each of them. Then and only maybe then I’ll start thinking about more detailed stats.
 

saving_par

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Ist thing I noticed is from OP is he either hits fairway or is in the :poop:

Is this a problem with his driving or simply taking wrong option off the tee?

Stats wont tell us that.
 
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No evidence to back this up but I suspect a massive percentage of people who keep stats either don't know what to do with them or don't do anything with them.
It's useful information for the Pros as they have the people who can analyse the data and they have the time to work on what needs working on
I'm far from convinced that the majority of average golfers would benefit from knowing their SG driving drifts from +0.5 to -8.9 depending on which way the wind is blowing.
This thread has proven you correct beyond reasonable doubt.
 

JamesR

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One thing I have done stats wise, which is easier to keep and may be more beneficial, is that I kept average scores for each hole.
I then worked out which holes I play regularly more over par than the rest, and then looked at how to play those holes better. One or two holes have gone from being amongst my worst holes to mid table, just by approaching them differently (dropping the driver, using a long iron, or FW wood etc).
 
Thread starter #32

harpo_72

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Ist thing I noticed is from OP is he either hits fairway or is in the :poop:

Is this a problem with his driving or simply taking wrong option off the tee?

Stats wont tell us that.
I think they were wrong decisions…
First missed fairway was supposed to be a lay up to a bunker at 230yards into the wind .. I took a 5 wood and swung freely - in the bunker.
2nd miss was on advice of partner, hit your driver , I did and it was straight but the trap was at 230yards and I was in. I was thinking 5 iron off the tee to 180-190 yards leaving me a 120-140 yard shot in depending on the flag position- would have been okay.
Next one was me being cute, trying to hit a fade but having the ball too far forward and getting a pull .. should have just smashed it down the middle with a 5 wood and have an easy 80yard pitch.
Final miss was a pull hook, which was quite a lot of movement but given I was aiming up the right edge with 40yards of fairway width it was only 2 yards off the fairway cut with a clear line in … so probably my only really out of control tee shot.

But I am starting to think about it a bit more and I am thinking I could score quite well if I just work on a few things..
 
Thread starter #33

harpo_72

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Improved the decision making last night, was using a reduced bag which was driver, 5-PW, 56, and putter.
Played a 5 iron down the 8th leaving a 9 or PW in (9 was at the back so PW could be middle front)
Adjusted the address position for the next hole I had missed previously, making sure the ball was on my left heal and hit the fade… very close to the green making the 2nd a bit of a conundrum ( resolved that with a 56 flop though.. but if lie is poor then rethink required)
Used the driver where I would use a hybrid or 5w but kind of bunted it .. played for the fade and ended up is A1 position.. so might carry that forward as it’s a low stress non tiring shot (or lazy)
GIR in improved significantly as FIR were all hit. From outside of 160yards I had a miss but that’s okay I can improve my odds, my strike was a bit dodgey last night ( bit of sway - getting a bit wide on the stance, old knees hate that and have been grumpy today) .
Putting was okay as well a few pulls but that wasn’t really painful as pace control was okay.
Worked on the short game , had picked up some bad habits and it was a case of just working those out, plus shot selection based on lie etc.. I think I finished the 11 holes at 1 over with 2 bogies and a bird , so that’s good - definitely getting my head into a positive space.
But Friday will be a test and then the following Wednesday with some match play rounds.
 

Orikoru

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One thing I have done stats wise, which is easier to keep and may be more beneficial, is that I kept average scores for each hole.
I then worked out which holes I play regularly more over par than the rest, and then looked at how to play those holes better. One or two holes have gone from being amongst my worst holes to mid table, just by approaching them differently (dropping the driver, using a long iron, or FW wood etc).
I also keep my average scores for each hole. But when I look at it, the ones where I have the worst score relative to par are just all the longest holes, so I can't really think of any other way to play them. I just need to hit it better I guess. :LOL:
 

JamesR

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I also keep my average scores for each hole. But when I look at it, the ones where I have the worst score relative to par are just all the longest holes, so I can't really think of any other way to play them. I just need to hit it better I guess. :LOL:
For myself the length isn't an issue. My worst 2 holes last year were both only 400 yards, but I averaged 1 over par. So on one I started being more aggressive off the tee, & the other hitting a 4 iron and being less aggressive. I'm only just over par on average for them now.
 
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Ive been keeping strokes gained, its devastating how difficult i find it to keep anything like a competitive number for approach play! Even my good scoring rounds are relative garbage from 150 - 200. Thats an area I thought I was outstanding in!
 
Thread starter #38

harpo_72

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For myself the length isn't an issue. My worst 2 holes last year were both only 400 yards, but I averaged 1 over par. So on one I started being more aggressive off the tee, & the other hitting a 4 iron and being less aggressive. I'm only just over par on average for them now.
Have you looked at breaking the hole down into your favourite distances/ clubs and seeing if you can minimise the score? Or reduce the risk of a double bogey?
 
Thread starter #39

harpo_72

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Ive been keeping strokes gained, its devastating how difficult i find it to keep anything like a competitive number for approach play! Even my good scoring rounds are relative garbage from 150 - 200. Thats an area I thought I was outstanding in!
But that’s the range where the amateur is worse at, hence hybrids, forgiving irons etc .. it’s also been my motivation to improve my driving distance and accuracy as just getting to 150 or 160 makes life so much better. I do try to hit 5 irons and hybrids as straight as possible but even so I just view them as distance clubs as opposed to scoring clubs.
 

Foxholer

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In spite of my Statistics background, I believe keeping these sort of stats has only limited - but perhaps important - benefit. That 'important' part is that it provides info that allows you to think more about your game than you might otherwise! The reason I believe stats only have limited benefit is that they are too often used poorly. Conditions such as pin placement likely change every round. That alone invalidates trying to compare different rounds imo!

The above stated...it IS possible to evaluate, to some degree, individual parts of an individual round using such stats. GIR is not a great metric as, as others have stated, the ball might still be miles from the hole. Likewise, the consequent 3-putt likely blows simple count of putts. This is the reason the 'strokes gained/lost' (but to who/what?!) stat is more helpful - but requires the dreaded time/effort to measure 'properly'. Even so, 'strokes gained/lost' really only compares one player against (an)other(s), not whether a particular player has actually improved or got poorer.

So I'd advise care about what stats you use! Average score on a hole seems a much better (and likely much simpler) metric than trying to copy Pro stats!
 
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