Stack & Tilt

[Owen_Thomas_14]

After months of no consistency im going back to the Stack & Tilt swing. I did use it through the winter and i have to admit i was hitting the ball a good 20 yards longer and much straighter but reverted back to a more normal style swing as i couldnt stop reverse pivoting and couldnt control the driver. I think the driver will be easier to control now as ive calmed down a bit more with it and with more frequent practice sessions i think the reverse pivot will stay away. Heres hoping

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Murphthemog and Justoneuk are the forum S&M I mean S&T gurus and so if you put a video up of the driver swing I'm sure they can give you some pointers. I have dabbled a little after some tips from James and I can see how it works and it is definitely something I might dabble with more over the winter when there is more time to work on it

 

[kid2]

What is Stack and Tilt and whats the benefit?

 

[USER1999]

I can't see how you can reverse pivot with S&T, with no backward weight shift, RP is impossible. You are doing it wrong.

Post a vid, and give us a laugh / sorry, look (that's what I meant to say, flippin keyboard, you can't trust it).

 

[jeffc]

I also use it but with more emphasis with shorter irons. Driver, rescues and 3 wood I just try to swing easy and let the technology do it's job.

I can see how you get a reverse pivot though, better to see the vid but sounds like your backswing is too long or not flat enough.

Just for the knockers it can teach you a lot about your swing and help with consistency especially if you hit a slice/fade. Charlie Wi doesn't do bad with it.

 

[Ethan]

Can anyone convince me that although some may have read the book, that anyone here actually properly uses this technique?

I am ready to eat humble pie once I see the video evidence.

Note: staying centred during a swing with a wedge is NOT stack and tilt. I do that much myself. I want to see some proper tilt.

 

[JustOne]

Note: staying centred during a swing with a wedge is NOT stack and tilt. I do that much myself. I want to see some proper tilt.

The tilt (as I'm sure you are aware) is a tilt towards the ball, not to the target.

When your hips rotate 45° and your right leg straightens a little your shoulders should be at an angle pointing down towards the ball and your spine angle should be the same as your setup position. During the swing you go from a forward tilt at setup to a sideways left tilt at the top of your swing then back to forwards as you make impact then into a sideways right tilt (and up) as you follow through.

In the conventional swing the tendency is to have the shoulders too flat in the backswing, making the swing to 'armsy', harder to repeat (for the average golfer) and it leads to more duffed shots.

 

[Ethan]

Yes indeed but some decent and previously unfamiliar hip action is needed and I rather doubt that he average middle hadicappet can do it. That is why they report lying SnT for shorter irons but can't get on with longer clubs.

I would still love to see some video of the GM SnT crew in action

 

[USER1999]

Ethan - Considering there are about a million variations in the 'standard' golf swing, and certainly no two are alike, why are you so adamant that anyone attempting a S&T based swing has to be so text book? Surely if it is a swing that is working for them, then that is fine. Whether it is more S&T than conventional, or vice versa. There is also no reason why some on here should not be doing it the 'correct' way.

 

[jeffc]

Ethan

take a look at Charlie Wi's swing it is supposed to be as pure S&T as you can get. Having said that a lot of top and great players past and present incorporate a small or large part of it in their swing. Thats why they always hit the ground in the same place.(even though a lot of them deny it)

 

[Spoff]

Stack & Tilt? Reverse Pivot?

Are we talking golf or ballet?

 

[Ethan]

Ethan - Considering there are about a million variations in the 'standard' golf swing, and certainly no two are alike, why are you so adamant that anyone attempting a S&T based swing has to be so text book? Surely if it is a swing that is working for them, then that is fine. Whether it is more S&T than conventional, or vice versa. There is also no reason why some on here should not be doing it the 'correct' way.

There may be a million different swings, but there are some elements of Stack and Tilt that make it 'a method' that needs to be done in a certain way.

So if you do the stack, tilt towards the ball, straighten right leg, right hip comes up, club comes inside etc, you can't hit the ball unless you do the bit they call 'spring up on the ball' and flexing the torso forward. You can see all the SnT Tour players do this, and unless you do it too, you can't hit the driver because you are still too tilted into the ball.

It may be easy to do the stack part, but if you do the tilt, the actions that result mean you have to do the spring up and flex torso parts too.

Don't get me wrong, I think it is an interesting method, and has a lot going for it, if you are capable of doing it. I have seem Plummer and Bennett on TV and liked the Baddeley swing, but I think the tilt puts you in a place where you need to do the rest of the method more or less properly. that is the big 'if'.

 

[Ethan]

Ethan

take a look at Charlie Wi's swing it is supposed to be as pure S&T as you can get. Having said that a lot of top and great players past and present incorporate a small or large part of it in their swing. Thats why they always hit the ground in the same place.(even though a lot of them deny it)

Saw Charlie Wi. Liked Baddeley's swing of a couple of years ago better, also Dean Wilson and even Mike Weir tried it for a while.

 

[KeefG]

I've just watched a video of an S&T swing for the 1st time and was absolutely staggered to see that thats what I used to do when I first started playing!!!

Well, kind of anyway, on my backswing my right leg totally straightened, but if I remember correctly I still transferred my weight onto the right side, I did this for a number of months because it felt completley natural to do (albeit I was totally, and I emphasise totally, rubbish) until I had a few lessons and it was the very 1st thing the pro made me stop doing.

I almost wish i'd stuck to my guns now and tried to learn the holy grail properly!

 

[JustOne]

...and unless you do it too, you can't hit the driver because you are still too tilted into the ball.

The driver is a longer club, the ball sits further away from you so there isn't the same tilt required as there might be (for instance) with an 8-iron.

Potential driver issues are: too much tilt, too much bend in the left knee (sinking) or the ball is too far back. You need to find the bottom of your swing arc (point of tangency) and tee the ball up an inch or two in front of it.

 

[JustOne]

I've just watched a video of an S&T swing for the 1st time and was absolutely staggered to see that thats what I used to do when I first started playing!!!

Well, kind of anyway, on my backswing my right leg totally straightened, but if I remember correctly I still transferred my weight onto the right side, I did this for a number of months because it felt completley natural to do (albeit I was totally, and I emphasise totally, rubbish) until I had a few lessons and it was the very 1st thing the pro made me stop doing.

I almost wish i'd stuck to my guns now and tried to learn the holy grail properly!

If you'd have stuck to your guns you would be a worse player for it, straightening your right leg AND putting your weight on it is futile. If you turn your hip 45° AND load all your weight on it you can't unwind it effectively. You'd be hitting a lot of fat/thins and probably slicing the life out of the ones you make contact with.

You were told the right thing at the time. You can't do both.

 

[Ethan]

...and unless you do it too, you can't hit the driver because you are still too tilted into the ball.

The driver is a longer club, the ball sits further away from you so there isn't the same tilt required as there might be (for instance) with an 8-iron.

Potential driver issues are: too much tilt, too much bend in the left knee (sinking) or the ball is too far back. You need to find the bottom of your swing arc (point of tangency) and tee the ball up an inch or two in front of it.

Yes, but you still need to spring up and tilt the hips back, in proportion to how much you tilted them in the first place.

The margins for error are smaller with a driver than with a 7 iron. You can hit a 7 iron like a 5 iron and quite like the result, but you can't launch a driver at 8 degres and expect to get a decent flight out of it. And it doesn't matter where your point of tangency is if the driver is coming downwards at the ball.

 

[JustOne]

We could split hairs about the hip movement all day, I've never had a problem with it, I try to finish on a nice straight left leg which means that I automatically 'raise up' and my hips clear naturally on the same plane of rotation that they were initially turning. I can't finish my swing on a bended left knee, I'd fall over

I can see why someone over flexing their left knee might have problems though, deep divots would certainly be a sign of this with iron play.... too steep.

 

[KeefG]

You'd be hitting a lot of fat/thins and probably slicing the life out of the ones you make contact with.

Thats exactly what I was doing

 

[JustOne]

Thats exactly what I was doing

...and now???



The only issue I have with my game is that I haven't practiced it for more than 3 hours this year, only on the course during rounds (and there haven't been many of those lately either). Shot a dodgy 7 over around a course called Nizels the other day with Smiffy, might have been lower if I actually knew the course.