SSS ......... Standard scratch ...... ???

moogie

moogie

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My current club has a White / Medal tees PAR of 72 ..... SSS 71
The Standard Scratch very, very, rarely is over 71, even at times when u would think it would defo be........??
eg....... I played a comp last year, 56 entries, I shot 38 points, 39 Won, 4 players have +36, under par, 4 players had 36 Points, 48 players shot worse than 36 points - Over Par
I was expecting a 0.4 deduction ( for a 72 ss )
But Standard Scratch was 37 pts
Now I dont profess to even begin to understand it, and realise a Standard Scratch is necessary, but it is disappointing knowing u are 1 OVER before u even tee off

Anybody else at a club with same type of SSS to Par........??

I know there are factors to be included, length, hazzards, etc..... But Im at a loss trying to guess what it is going to be every week
My previous Club, had a much more varied Standard Scratch, and very, very rarely played UNDER its par

I dont want this to sound like a Gripe, I play golf purely socially, and for the banter, but obviously Play to get better, cos I really love the game, I just wanted to know if many other Forum users are in the 'Same Boat'..........???
 
moogie said:
My current club has a White / Medal tees PAR of 72 ..... SSS 71
The Standard Scratch very, very, rarely is over 71, even at times when u would think it would defo be........??
eg....... I played a comp last year, 56 entries, I shot 38 points, 39 Won, 4 players have +36, under par, 4 players had 36 Points, 48 players shot worse than 36 points - Over Par
I was expecting a 0.4 deduction ( for a 72 ss )
But Standard Scratch was 37 pts
Now I dont profess to even begin to understand it, and realise a Standard Scratch is necessary, but it is disappointing knowing u are 1 OVER before u even tee off

Anybody else at a club with same type of SSS to Par........??

I know there are factors to be included, length, hazzards, etc..... But Im at a loss trying to guess what it is going to be every week
My previous Club, had a much more varied Standard Scratch, and very, very rarely played UNDER its par

I dont want this to sound like a Gripe, I play golf purely socially, and for the banter, but obviously Play to get better, cos I really love the game, I just wanted to know if many other Forum users are in the 'Same Boat'..........???
Click to expand...

which two clubs are you on about moogie?
ours is par 72 SS always 71 or 70 cant remember when it was 72 ever!
 
You're confusing Standard Scratch Score (SSS) and Competiton Scratch Score(CSS)
SSS is fixed and is often at par or below. It gives you a reference as to how hard the course is. Par 71, SSS 68 is a relatively easy course, Par 71, SSS 73 is harder...
CSS changes as scores change - from -1 to +3. It is worked out by the computer because it is so complicated.
 
Imurg --- Sorry, I just gave Par & SSS as a reference, I knew that was fixed
Its just that the CSS , as you say varies by the Comp scores, just very rarely does Vary.....
 
Ours is par 72, SSS 71 and we have seen every possible CSS - 70 to 74 - which I take to be perfectly normal. Weather and course conditions - and pin positions - can certainly make a difference of 2 or 3 shots.
 
moogie said:
I played a comp last year, 56 entries, I shot 38 points, 39 Won, 4 players have +36, under par, 4 players had 36 Points, 48 players shot worse than 36 points - Over Par
I was expecting a 0.4 deduction ( for a 72 ss )
But Standard Scratch was 37 pts
Now I dont profess to even begin to understand it, and realise a Standard Scratch is necessary, but it is disappointing knowing u are 1 OVER before u even tee off
Click to expand...

Off the yellows our course is SSS 69 against par of 70. So if CSS doesn't change you need to to beat net 69 or 37 points for a cut.

CSS is based on SSS. So SSS is important. The reason why our SSS off the yellows is less than par is that off the yellows our course is considered to be 1 shot easier than off the whites. It's about 300 yards shorter in fact. That ought to save me a shot. So as a 12 h/c instead of shooting 82 I should be able to shoot 81.

If the course were also short for its par off the whites the same would apply. SSS evens up the handicaps between members at a par 72 with lots of 290 yard par 4's and 480 yard par 5's and members at a par 72 course with lots of 440 yard par 4's and 540 yard par 5's. Shooting 12 over par at the shorter course will be easier than shooting 12 over at the long one.

CSS takes into account the difficulty of the course on the day of the comp and is based on the scores actually returned. It is complex as it based on percentages of players in each cat and comparing what they actually scored against what they are expected to score.

One key thing is that it isn't about how many people are over or under SSS but how many players in each of cat 1, 2 & 3 are within or outside their buffer zone compared to SSS (used to be a flat 2 over but it changed this year). Basically the system assumes that if lots of people are inside their buffer zone it is playing easy and CSS comes down (max -1). If the scores are all sky high because it was blowing a gale it goes up (max +3).

It's all done by the computer and when all the scores are in the actual numbers will be calculated correctly. It is often difficult to second guess it just by looking at the comp results.

Whether the system for calculating CSS or the concept itself is "fair" or not is another matter and subject to much debate.

If you are interested in finding our more try these sites

CONGU (Council of National Golf Unions) They run the system

http://www.congu.com/

Engish Golf Union

http://www.englishgolfunion.org/page.aspx?sitesectionid=633&sitesectiontitle=2012-2015+CONGU+Unified+Handicapping+System

Sorry that turned out to be a much longer post than intended.
 
I'm guessing there's a drivable par 4 or shortish par 5 to bring the SSS down.

Handicaps are set off this too so you although you are actually level par with net 72 you are also 1 over your handicap.
 
Wayman said:
wouldnt mind a game around westerhope
scratch there in august and im entering it
Click to expand...


Im just recovering from a back injury, ( slipped Disc ) 1st full round just the other week, but when Im satisfied I wont embarrass myself, ha, and the weather Picks up, Then Id be happy to arrange a game with you.
The Course is NOT great during winter times
The Summer Scratch Comp you mention, will be the George Howarth.....??....I believe, always a good turn out, sure you will enjoy....:thup:
 
moogie said:
Im just recovering from a back injury, ( slipped Disc ) 1st full round just the other week, but when Im satisfied I wont embarrass myself, ha, and the weather Picks up, Then Id be happy to arrange a game with you.
The Course is NOT great during winter times
The Summer Scratch Comp you mention, will be the George Howarth.....??....I believe, always a good turn out, sure you will enjoy....:thup:
Click to expand...

Yeah i think thats the one.
hopefully will enjoy it
ill keep that game in mind ;)
 
Imurg said:
CSS changes as scores change - from -1 to +3. It is worked out by the computer because it is so complicated.
Click to expand...

It's not that complicated - I used to do it manually before I discovered Handicapmaster.

You would expect your CSS to be mostly 71 (37 points)or 70 (38 points) with the occasional 72 (36 points) or higher.
CSS is based on the proportion of players in Cats 1, 2and 3 who have equalled or bettered a certain score on the day – 72 (36 points)for Cat 1, 73 (35 points) for Cat 2 and 74 (34 points) for Cat 3.
The approximate proportions and resultant CSS are:
40% and over = CSS 70 (38 points)
20 to 39% = CSS 71 (37 points)
14 to 19% = CSS 72 (36 points)
10 to 13% = CSS 73 (35 points)
6 to 9% = CSS 74 (34 points)
Less than 6% =CSS 74 (34 points) (Reductions Only)



PS - This refers to the OP's course - Par 72, SSS 71.
 
pbrown7582 said:
I'm guessing there's a drivable par 4 or shortish par 5 to bring the SSS down.
Click to expand...

The length of individual holes are not a factor in determining SSS. The overall length of the course is the starting point and all other factors such as terrain, fairway width, Out of Bounds etc. are then factored in.
 
rosecott said:
It's not that complicated - I used to do it manually before I discovered Handicapmaster.

You would expect your CSS to be mostly 71 (37 points)or 70 (38 points) with the occasional 72 (36 points) or higher.
CSS is based on the proportion of players in Cats 1, 2and 3 who have equalled or bettered a certain score on the day – 72 (36 points)for Cat 1, 73 (35 points) for Cat 2 and 74 (34 points) for Cat 3.
The approximate proportions and resultant CSS are:
40% and over = CSS 70 (38 points)
20 to 39% = CSS 71 (37 points)
14 to 19% = CSS 72 (36 points)
10 to 13% = CSS 73 (35 points)
6 to 9% = CSS 74 (34 points)
Less than 6% =CSS 74 (34 points) (Reductions Only)



PS - This refers to the OP's course - Par 72, SSS 71.
Click to expand...

That's not complicated.....?????:mmm:
 
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