spent some time in the sand yesterday

[garyinderry]

Here is the clips. Warts and all. Loads of poor shots in there.

Been trying to swing more shallow into the ball in an attempt to get a shallow strike under the ball. Results weren't great. Thought I had my weight left but can see my top half hanging way back on the side views in the 16th bunker.

Eventually decided to try what I call the 'birchy bunker method'. Watched him play bunker shots like this and he keeps it very simple. He sets up square, ball about middle, face square and hands a little ahead. Simply digs in about 4 inches behind and ball pops out and flys straight. Works well if not in a big silly pot bunker.

As you can see getting out isn't a problem. Distance control is brutal mind you.

Wedges are high bounce and the 60 has a huge sole.

Feel free to comment and give me ideas what to try next. Might book a bunker lesson. Could be fun.

Videos to follow...

 

[garyinderry]

[video=youtube;8QzbNjWHDcg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QzbNjWHDcg[/video]

 

[garyinderry]

[video=youtube;2r4hQbQP4fw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2r4hQbQP4fw&t=2s[/video]

 

[garyinderry]

[video=youtube;_6Xy5Unz_e0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6Xy5Unz_e0&t=3s[/video]

 

[garyinderry]

[video=youtube;tVGOXOzGxco]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVGOXOzGxco&t=1s[/video]

 

[garyinderry]

[video=youtube;RY-ZNdOOAXg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RY-ZNdOOAXg[/video]

 

[patricks148]

TBH thats not what i would call a bunker....

have you tried just chipping normally to get out?

When i was playing some parkland golf a few weeks ago from this type of shallow trap with next to no lip (face) and no sand/ packed hard. we all just chipped out like we would off a path or the like.

 

[garyinderry]

TBH thats not what i would call a bunker....

have you tried just chipping normally to get out?

When i was playing some parkland golf a few weeks ago from this type of shallow trap with next to no lip (face) and no sand/ packed hard. we all just chipped out like we would off a path or the like.

There is plenty of sand in those bunkers. Just constantly wet and brown looking due to non stop rain here.

When faced with long bunker shots I do tend to play this like a regular pitch.

That 'birchy bunker method' is like a regular chip although you just hit it 4 inches fat to get under the ball.

 

[bobmac]

Why are you trying to get a more shallow angle of attack?

 

[Curls]

*insert no expert disclaimer here*

I'm guessing from your intro you're not overly confident in the technique and aren't getting the results you want, so if you'll allow me to be constructively critical...

It was pretty breezy eh?!

I'd say your left hand grip looks strong, which might be you opening the clubface by turning your hands over rather than turning the club in your grip? I thought you were squaring the face in the description but it looks pretty open to me?

A lot of your shots bounce right, not just cos of wind at a guess, you're cutting across it which is fine if you allow for and can control the bounce/spin right on landing. In left to right winds like the first video it's a killer so maybe work on a bunker shot that doesn't chop across as much.

Your follow through looks full and relaxed. Not a bad thing at all. I wonder if it's a bit too relaxed though! Are you getting the acceleration through impact you need particularly to get the ball up very quickly if faced with a steep face?

It also almost looks like your body falls back after impact. If you want your weight to be behind the ball I guess this is what you'd do but I always though your sternum should be over the impact point in the sand.

I'd be worried about brushing the sand on the way back with that shallow a take away. The way I was taught was a steep take away and impact, transferring all the weight to the lead foot. Distance is controlled by

1. How open you set up - both in terms of body and clubface
2. how far forward the ball is (also controls height/trajectory)
3. How much sand you take.

Generally I'm looking to take a decent amount of sand on all but very long shots because at ours the sand depth is very variable (as is the condition after rain etc). I reckon if you play a lovely american fluffy sand course then the shallow technique is grand, but in the variability I face at least I prefer to have one shot type that I can vary with set up, rather than a bunch of shot types. I know its not whats taught in a lot of places but it works for me!

More than one way to skin this cat!

Good man for putting videos up, I haven't done this and might do over the winter - you'll have a good chance to get me back then

 

[garyinderry]

Why are you trying to get a more shallow angle of attack?

Because in the past I've just come down steeply on them and I was thinking I was maybe too steep.

Tired a few shallow approaches when playing the day before and slipped in under them nicely and popped out. didn't work so well in practice. Was just a notion to try as I had always picked the club up rather quickly.

 

[garyinderry]

*insert no expert disclaimer here*

I'm guessing from your intro you're not overly confident in the technique and aren't getting the results you want, so if you'll allow me to be constructively critical...

It was pretty breezy eh?!

I'd say your left hand grip looks strong, which might be you opening the clubface by turning your hands over rather than turning the club in your grip? I thought you were squaring the face in the description but it looks pretty open to me?

There is two different techniques being attempted if you can call it that. 16th bunker I was trying what you see many do. Face way open, opening up adding more loft on back swing although I trying to raise the toe a bit too at address.

The second technique was what I called the birchy method which was square and digging.

A lot of your shots bounce right, not just cos of wind at a guess, you're cutting across it which is fine if you allow for and can control the bounce/spin right on landing. In left to right winds like the first video it's a killer so maybe work on a bunker shot that doesn't chop across as much.

Was just trying what you see on TV and have done a lot in the past. The old chop across.

Your follow through looks full and relaxed. Not a bad thing at all. I wonder if it's a bit too relaxed though! Are you getting the acceleration through impact you need particularly to get the ball up very quickly if faced with a steep face?

It also almost looks like your body falls back after impact. If you want your weight to be behind the ball I guess this is what you'd do but I always though your sternum should be over the impact point in the sand.

Noticed this too. Kills me in my golf swing too. glad I took a side on to see this)


I'd be worried about brushing the sand on the way back with that shallow a take away. The way I was taught was a steep take away and impact, transferring all the weight to the lead foot. Distance is controlled by

1. How open you set up - both in terms of body and clubface
2. how far forward the ball is (also controls height/trajectory)
3. How much sand you take.

Generally I'm looking to take a decent amount of sand on all but very long shots because at ours the sand depth is very variable (as is the condition after rain etc). I reckon if you play a lovely american fluffy sand course then the shallow technique is grand, but in the variability I face at least I prefer to have one shot type that I can vary with set up, rather than a bunch of shot types. I know its not whats taught in a lot of places but it works for me!

More than one way to skin this cat!

Good man for putting videos up, I haven't done this and might do over the winter - you'll have a good chance to get me back then

Appreciate it. I will work more on this and post more to see if there is much improvement. I was just in there trying things it. Havant had much time to do this kind of messing about practice this summer.


I was also trying what felt like a forward ball position on the bunker shots on 16. In hindsight this may not suit a shallow approach and someone falling back. #airmail

 

[Curls]

As it happens the coincidence that you were hit twice with the same question wasn't a coincidence - Bob taught me that technique!

It's really versatile, whether the bunker is wet/soft deep/shallow fluffy/gritty it's the same basic shot with set up adjustments. Given what I play in its perfect. A good tip I saw by Andy Sullivan was just to draw a line in the sand with you club and practice hitting that with the bounce of the wedge. When there's no ball there you focus much more on how/where the club enters the sand. Then at the end of the line you have a ball and you just pop that sucker out without thinking. Try it!

 

[garyinderry]

As it happens the coincidence that you were hit twice with the same question wasn't a coincidence - Bob taught me that technique!

It's really versatile, whether the bunker is wet/soft deep/shallow fluffy/gritty it's the same basic shot with set up adjustments. Given what I play in its perfect. A good tip I saw by Andy Sullivan was just to draw a line in the sand with you club and practice hitting that with the bounce of the wedge. When there's no ball there you focus much more on how/where the club enters the sand. Then at the end of the line you have a ball and you just pop that sucker out without thinking. Try it!

I will do. I probably shouldn't be opening up these wedges so much on this heavy wet sand saying they already have so much bounce on them.

 

[the_coach]

bunch of stuff to maybes to consider G
realize the grip situation is & has been a kinda work in progress

but both hands are pretty strong so they are naturally goin to take loft of the club face - brain senses this & instinctively compensates without any real conscious thought so you get the upper body leaning back aways as the brain looks to help the ball up & out

ball position - my take - looked to be more middle of the stance didn't looking forwards at all so again that means brain sensing a de-lofted face arriving too soon at the place back of the ball
looked to me swing direction was a tad out to rightfield - a bunch of shots starting direction out to right of pin (shoulder line at set-up looked angled out to right (tad closed) also) so coming from the inside - maybes a couple of kinda heel leading edge strikes in there too ....

so in an ideal world both hands would need to be a bunch weaker - if not that's goin to make it a whole bunch more difficult as then that would mean more hip/body rotation needed into strike into sand to stop the face de-loft too much

so ball position - a ball at least forwards of where it was maybes even a tad more than one ball
but what is real important is that the upper body does not lean back - so imagine from face on view point that at set-up
(which could probably need a tad wider stance tad lower hands/handle so you a tad further aways from the ball)
from face-on that a 'line' from your belt buckle to sternum is virtually at 90º make the takeback/backswing with a tad more wrist-set (tad more forwards ball position will give you shallow attack don't need the kinda no wrists shallow takeback - it's the forwards swing that to a certain extent shallows out 'some' so it's not 'mega steep' to just dig in & not get out but still need to be -4º -5º to take the sand out)

but then imagine too as you come back in the downswing to sand impact that the line between belt buckle & sternum is still almost vertical at 90º so the spine angle wouldn't be leaning back off the ball any you're just rotating/turning thru with upper body more 'centered'
& the tad more wrist-set will give you some more clubhead speed to zip the bounce thru the sand & get distance - the less wrist goin back means it's hard to get the speed thru the sand to reach those pin positions

speed of clubhead is being produced by wrists/arms & rotation for the distances from a green side bunker so don't need to think transfer weight into the rightside so much goin back at all

- at set-up feel that the weight is more lead 55/45 trail & it stays that ways on the backswing and just 'feel' it stays like that on the downswing to impact - it won't actual stay like that into impact it will naturally get a tad more on the lead side as you swing down & rotate thru - but you don't need a big transfer or shift left with these small distances as a weight shift at transition would tend to either get you too steep so too much sand or make you more back off the ball lean back & 'sh**k' or blade it

ideal would be a change in grip hold of the handle by rotating both hands counterclockwise some so both thumbs are more to the topside of the handle 'v's pointing to just rightside of chin - but that done with that grip hold taken first when the leading edge is just 'open' a tad of square so face maybes 10º open-ish - not grip taken with leading edge square to target then just turning the hands/handle to provide a false 'open' face as it would just return square with less loft presented less bounce presented & make life more difficult again

have a go at grip change & then just practice thumping the bounce into the sand (no ball) onto a line forwards of center of stance to throw a 'money-note' size bunch of sand out each time

& make sure at set-up that the shoulder line isn't pointing right of target any

 

[bobmac]

Don't know why you want a shallow angle of attack at this time of the year

 

[garyinderry]

Don't know why you want a shallow angle of attack at this time of the year

Just thought it would be something I would try. Nothing ventured nothing gained. Probably not the idea time of the year to try it right enough with heavy wet sand.

 

[garyinderry]

bunch of stuff to maybes to consider G
realize the grip situation is & has been a kinda work in progress

but both hands are pretty strong so they are naturally goin to take loft of the club face - brain senses this & instinctively compensates without any real conscious thought so you get the upper body leaning back aways as the brain looks to help the ball up & out

ball position - my take - looked to be more middle of the stance didn't looking forwards at all so again that means brain sensing a de-lofted face arriving too soon at the place back of the ball
looked to me swing direction was a tad out to rightfield - a bunch of shots starting direction out to right of pin (shoulder line at set-up looked angled out to right (tad closed) also) so coming from the inside - maybes a couple of kinda heel leading edge strikes in there too ....

so in an ideal world both hands would need to be a bunch weaker - if not that's goin to make it a whole bunch more difficult as then that would mean more hip/body rotation needed into strike into sand to stop the face de-loft too much

so ball position - a ball at least forwards of where it was maybes even a tad more than one ball
but what is real important is that the upper body does not lean back - so imagine from face on view point that at set-up
(which could probably need a tad wider stance tad lower hands/handle so you a tad further aways from the ball)
from face-on that a 'line' from your belt buckle to sternum is virtually at 90º make the takeback/backswing with a tad more wrist-set (tad more forwards ball position will give you shallow attack don't need the kinda no wrists shallow takeback - it's the forwards swing that to a certain extent shallows out 'some' so it's not 'mega steep' to just dig in & not get out but still need to be -4º -5º to take the sand out)

but then imagine too as you come back in the downswing to sand impact that the line between belt buckle & sternum is still almost vertical at 90º so the spine angle wouldn't be leaning back off the ball any you're just rotating/turning thru with upper body more 'centered'
& the tad more wrist-set will give you some more clubhead speed to zip the bounce thru the sand & get distance - the less wrist goin back means it's hard to get the speed thru the sand to reach those pin positions

speed of clubhead is being produced by wrists/arms & rotation for the distances from a green side bunker so don't need to think transfer weight into the rightside so much goin back at all

- at set-up feel that the weight is more lead 55/45 trail & it stays that ways on the backswing and just 'feel' it stays like that on the downswing to impact - it won't actual stay like that into impact it will naturally get a tad more on the lead side as you swing down & rotate thru - but you don't need a big transfer or shift left with these small distances as a weight shift at transition would tend to either get you too steep so too much sand or make you more back off the ball lean back & 'sh**k' or blade it

ideal would be a change in grip hold of the handle by rotating both hands counterclockwise some so both thumbs are more to the topside of the handle 'v's pointing to just rightside of chin - but that done with that grip hold taken first when the leading edge is just 'open' a tad of square so face maybes 10º open-ish - not grip taken with leading edge square to target then just turning the hands/handle to provide a false 'open' face as it would just return square with less loft presented less bounce presented & make life more difficult again

have a go at grip change & then just practice thumping the bounce into the sand (no ball) onto a line forwards of center of stance to throw a 'money-note' size bunch of sand out each time

& make sure at set-up that the shoulder line isn't pointing right of target any

Plenty to chew on there. I always seem to grip my wedges super strong. Much stronger than other clubs.

Did you notice there was too different attempted styles.

Bunker labelled 16th was open stance and bunker labelled 2nd was aiming right of the target but I was thinking the wind was going to blow the ball right to left in the air. It didn't really touch it too much.


Think I will try to hit a little closer to the ball next time. Ended up watching seve last night. He was saying an inch and a half is where he likes to enter the sand.

 

[the_coach]

Plenty to chew on there. I always seem to grip my wedges super strong. Much stronger than other clubs.

Did you notice there was too different attempted styles.

Bunker labelled 16th was open stance and bunker labelled 2nd was aiming right of the target but I was thinking the wind was going to blow the ball right to left in the air. It didn't really touch it too much.


Think I will try to hit a little closer to the ball next time. Ended up watching seve last night. He was saying an inch and a half is where he likes to enter the sand.

yep understood the difference

it's possible to play bunker shots with a real strong grip both hands - but that does mean that has to be taken into account with the particular swing motion & set-up that would need to be associated with that strong grip as the brain will tend to look to make compensations - like the lean back spine - because square face or open face along with the grip position will naturally de-loft the face - open face start would be better but strong grip has to be taken to the open face at address not just turn the face open with hands to 'open' the face as that's a false open

big key is the angle of the spine as said - leaning back off the ball to trail side makes it very difficult

have a look at zack j, here he of the real strong grip - note the forwards ball position - & the spine angle & how open the face is to start look how the weight doesn't move into the trail leg (as per norm irons) weight kept more as it started off a tad more on the lead leg not real transfer - notice how his upper body through the shot is stacked on top of the lower body so more vertical belt buckle to sternum - no backwards tilt

in set-up too from dtl note the tad lower hands so standing a tad further away from the ball

[video=youtube;yP4tER_Rk9k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yP4tER_Rk9k[/video]

 

[the_coach]

[video=youtube;unkPAKkBouY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unkPAKkBouY[/video]