Speeding in a thirty limit

[Blue in Munich]

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/may/13/speed-limits-reduce-number-road-deaths

Couple of things that stand out from this article

Number of deaths on Motorways in Germany - in 2008 =495 , in the UK it is 157

In 2006 out of the 645 deaths on the Autobahn - 67% were on the unrestricted stretches

In Germany - they have a higher percentage of road deaths on the motorways compared to us between 07-09 it was 12 % compared to 6%

yep looking at that i will stick to having restricted speeds on the motorway :thup:

Out of how many vehicle movements? Can't have a valid comparison without adding the weight of traffic.

Yes, 67% of the accidents were on the unrestricted stretches, and the fact you chose to leave out that the article didn't was that 67% of the network is unrestricted, so if you read all of the article it concludes the the speed limit or lack thereof has no effect on the fatalities…….

 

[Hacker Khan]

Most roads seem to be self regulating a lot nowadays during the day. You can guarantee you will come across some coffin dodger in a Honda Jazz doing 25 before you go too far if you drive anywhere in an urban area in the day. And most motorways are very busy.

I do think if you could guarantee you could do a pretty constant 70 then people would get where they are going a lot quicker and safer, instead of the speed up to 85, slow down to 60, speed up to 90, slow down to 55 that seems to go on on most busy motorways. But then again I'd rather be in the outside lane doing 80 than the inside land doing 55 with 38 tonners behind and in front of you.

That is what kind of worrys me a bit about slowing Mways down to 60 as they are doing on the M1, as you will technically only be able to do 5mph faster than huge lorries, meaning it will become a lot more difficult to 'escape' them. I get really worried when I am in an average camera 50 zone, doing 50, with a huge artic up my chuff as I think if I break suddenly then I am probably dead if he goes into me. At times I have had to deliberately break the speed limit in those zones the speed limit as I figured that is better than an artic driving 5 yards behind me. And before anyone says why don't I slow down and let it overtake then that is a waste of time as all that happens is that more often than not another one starts driving up your chuff.

 

[Beezerk]

I don't subscribe to the "raise the motorway speed limit to 80" argument.
Modern cars give you a false sense of security IMO, smash into something at 80, well you're buggered aren't you.
I do around 50,000 miles a year and see a lot of nutters on a daily basis, giving the maniacs another 10 mph to work with is just crazy.
I'm no angel when it comes to driving but I do feel any rise would lead to much worse high speed traffic accidents.

 

[chris661]

So if we raise the limit to 85 - remembering that's just the limit and not many actually stick to it - you then get people going well over the limit and into the 90's and into a ton

Can you not see the increased risk that would create ?

Proof of the extra risk please.

But how much difference does 10mph slower in urban areas really make ?

Mins ?

Does your life revolve around saving mins in a car journey ?

So you NEVER speed in an area that is 20/30 mph (not even by straying over the limit by 1 mph?) or are eve late for anything?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Proof of the extra risk please.



So you NEVER speed in an area that is 20/30 mph (not even by straying over the limit by 1 mph?) or are eve late for anything?

After seeing my friends daughter pass away no I don't - I even go just below the speed limit around housing estates and schools

And I plan my journeys accordingly by leaving a bit earlier if needed

 

[Foxholer]

In Germany - they have a higher percentage of road deaths on the motorways compared to us between 07-09 it was 12 % compared to 6%

LDL&S strikes again!

I'd challenge the usefulness of those numbers - there are other important variables missing. So any conclusion based on those numbers is misleading (at best). To explain, what would the figures be if 95% of either Country's roads were Motorway?

Here's some stats with 3 different metrics! UK performs very well in all of them! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate

 

[stevie_r]

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/may/13/speed-limits-reduce-number-road-deaths

Couple of things that stand out from this article

Number of deaths on Motorways in Germany - in 2008 =495 , in the UK it is 157

In 2006 out of the 645 deaths on the Autobahn - 67% were on the unrestricted stretches

In Germany - they have a higher percentage of road deaths on the motorways compared to us between 07-09 it was 12 % compared to 6%

yep looking at that i will stick to having restricted speeds on the motorway :thup:

Any recent and therefore more valid figures?

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Is it just me or are folk on here seriously advocating that driving at 90 mph on a motorway will be safer.

You may think you are an F1 driver but a blowout or a smashed windscreen can happen any time.

 

[stevie_r]

people drive over the speed limit because as Steve said - people want to get to places quicker - they are have no awareness of others on the road or pedestrians or cyclists etc.

That is a particularly ridiculous sweeping generalisation. So those people who wish to get to their destination quicker are the ones that have no awareness? Really? My thoughts on the matter would be that there are a large number of motorists who are lacking in awareness, but that it has nothing to do with speed.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

That is a particularly ridiculous sweeping generalisation. So those people who wish to get to their destination quicker are the ones that have no awareness? Really? My thoughts on the matter would be that there are a large number of motorists who are lacking in awareness, but that it has nothing to do with speed.

There are also other drivers that lack awareness

 

[Foxholer]

Foxholer, I'm pretty sure that's not the equation accepted and used for the calculation of stopping distances from skid marks, I will try to clarify if I can find it.

Indeed it wouldn't be. That's the equation for calculating Kinetic Energy - which is what has to be shed in order to stop.

Mass is definitely involved though. Just think how much further it takes to stop in a car that's laden with Adults and Luggage.

 

[williamalex1]

Kinetic energy. E= 1/2MV**2. M is Mass. So Mass is definitely 'involved'. As the Mass of the vehicle also contributes to the Friction, I agree that it's not a 'simple' linear link though (I don't believe I actually stated that it was, if I did, I).

Should be pretty intuitive too - Think FT=MV (or its integration across the stopping period). Increased Mass requiring more effort to stop - so larger brakes for more leverage. Imagine a Fiesta with Range Rover brakes! Or, more frighteningly, the other way around!

Don't you just love the way Physics (and Maths) can describe 'everything'!

physics info should help, just use the initials

 

[Foxholer]

Out of how many vehicle movements? Can't have a valid comparison without adding the weight of traffic.

Yes, 67% of the accidents were on the unrestricted stretches, and the fact you chose to leave out that the article didn't was that 67% of the network is unrestricted, so if you read all of the article it concludes the the speed limit or lack thereof has no effect on the fatalities…….

:whoo: Missed that!

LDL&S strikes yet again - in fact, I think for both of you - as I don't believe that's the conclusion of the article, just an 'at first glance' reference that is quickly disclaimed!

 

[Blue in Munich]

:whoo: Missed that!

LDL&S strikes yet again - in fact, I think for both of you - as I don't believe that's the conclusion of the article, just an 'at first glance' reference that is quickly disclaimed!

Fair point, you're right, having seen it I just had to post it & my typing finger ran away with itself…..

 

[Fyldewhite]

I'm in to this debate late and obviously haven't read every post. However, my thoughts are that there is far too much emphasis on speed alone. Many have metioned "nutters" driving on our roads and motorways on a daily basis. If someone is caught doing 80 in dreadful weather then they should be done for dangerous driving not speeding. The truth is though that they are probably less likely to get caught as enforcement is seemingly absent in such conditions.

Germany has already been discussed, France have variable speed limits with 82mph in good conditions. This seems reasonable to me though their motorways are quieter on the whole but a sensible approach surely cannot be beyond the wit of man and would get 99% of drivers onside where a large number currently feel victimised by the almost jobsworth tactics of the police.

On the OP? I've always said that driving with one eye on the speedo is driving with only one eye on the road. A few miles an hour doesn't make a significant difference when balanced with awareness and good driving. Again it's the lack of flexibility with arbitary limits that are frustrating, or the apparent inability for the police to show any discretion based on the circumstances or conditions.

 

[chris661]

After seeing my friends daughter pass away no I don't - I even go just below the speed limit around housing estates and schools

And I plan my journeys accordingly by leaving a bit earlier if needed

It must be absolutely fantastic to know you will never experience a speeding ticket.

Do you have any proof of the extra risk associated with increasing the speed limits on the motorways though?

 

[Imurg]

Do you have any proof of the extra risk associated with increasing the speed limits on the motorways though?

Not specifically aimed at you Chris but to all those demanding proof of extra risk in increasing speed limits or reducing limit or whatever - do have any proof to validate your claims...?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

It must be absolutely fantastic to know you will never experience a speeding ticket.

Do you have any proof of the extra risk associated with increasing the speed limits on the motorways though?

Getting a speeding ticket was never my worrying - killing a child is and always will hence why sticking to the limit

Not sure why that would something worth sniggering at but each to their own

 

[chris661]

Not specifically aimed at you Chris but to all those demanding proof of extra risk in increasing speed limits or reducing limit or whatever - do have any proof to validate your claims...?

It's ok, but I haven't made any claims just curious to those that are saying something but have no proof to back it up.

Getting a speeding ticket was never my worrying - killing a child is and always will hence why sticking to the limit

Not sure why that would something worth sniggering at but each to their own

Woah there fella! I don't think anyone is "sniggering" about a child being killed so maybe wind your neck in on that score. I am merely astounded that you NEVER stray above the speed limit at ANY time for whatever reason and remember that there are times when you can break the speed limit and no children will die or even puppy dogs. But as you say each top their own (pomposity).

And you still haven't answered my question about the proof regarding the extra risk when you increase the speed limit on a motorway. Are you really a politician?

 

[Hacker Khan]

Is it just me or are folk on here seriously advocating that driving at 90 mph on a motorway will be safer.

You may think you are an F1 driver but a blowout or a smashed windscreen can happen any time.

Don't think so myself. I suppose there is an argument that with the engineering improvements, a modern car doing 80/85 is inherently safer than a car doing 70 when the limits were set back in the day.

You could argue the safest speed to do is 1 mph, but it's a balance between safety, common sense, increasingly the needs of asthmatic polar bears and the ability for people to get to where ever they are going to do whatever they need to do there. And there is an argument that 70 mph in some circumstances could be raised. Unless you are an asthmatic polar bear (yes I have stolen that phrase from Jeremy Clarkson). Also I would advocate 20 outside all schools at certain times, no excuses, speed cameras there, the lot.

I suspect it wont be long before most motorways have the variable speed limits, so wouldn't it be nice if the signs read 80 at times when it was safe to do so. And then police the 80mph more, instead of the '70 but you wont be done till you are doing 85' we have today.