Speeding in a thirty limit

[Blue in Munich]

Kinetic energy. E= 1/2MV**2. M is Mass. So Mass is definitely 'involved'. As the Mass of the vehicle also contributes to the Friction, I agree that it's not a 'simple' linear link though (I don't believe I actually stated that it was, if I did, I).

Should be pretty intuitive too - Think FT=MV (or its integration across the stopping period). Increased Mass requiring more effort to stop - so larger brakes for more leverage. Imagine a Fiesta with Range Rover brakes! Or, more frighteningly, the other way around!

Don't you just love the way Physics (and Maths) can describe 'everything'!

Foxholer, I'm pretty sure that's not the equation accepted and used for the calculation of stopping distances from skid marks, I will try to clarify if I can find it.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Why would you be happier? Our motorway speed limit is years old and based on the standard of car at the time. The motorway limit could actually be raised to about 85 without any appreciably greater risk.

So if we raise the limit to 85 - remembering that's just the limit and not many actually stick to it - you then get people going well over the limit and into the 90's and into a ton

Can you not see the increased risk that would create ?

 

[stevie_r]

So if we raise the limit to 85 - remembering that's just the limit and not many actually stick to it - you then get people going well over the limit and into the 90's and into a ton

Can you not see the increased risk that would create ?

Germany manages quite well with no limit on a significant percentage of its Autobahn network; funnily enough in 10 years in total living there, rather than every motorway journey being like a scene from Mad Max, it actually felt very safe.

Back to you.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Or the driver of the Land Rover was a more competent driver than the driver of the car.

As to the 20mph limit, I have no issue with it if it is used as it was intended to have been used; in areas where there is a particular risk to vulnerable road users. Unfortunately my experience is that it is being used as a blunt instrument in what I would consider to be an unnecessary manner, and in certain instances a manner which actually leads to the speed limit being disrespected. The guidance that I am familiar with is this;

http://assets.dft.gov.uk/publications/circular-1-06/circular-1-2006.pdf

Before anyone tells me it has been updated, I am aware, but this is the version that was in place when a number of the ones I have issue with were put in, hence reference to it.

If this was adhered to fine, but there are too many examples of abuse of it or inappropriate use for my mind to be supportive of blanket 20 mph limits. n the right place and engineered in the right manner yes, but there should be nothing wrong with 30 mph as a limit in most residential areas if the drivers adhere to it as a limit AND drive appropriately for the prevailing conditions, and this document on speed limits echoes that.

But drivers don't adhere to 30 mph limits so they are actually going a lot faster

Yes 20mph shouldn't be everywhere

But why do people need to go 30mph in a housing estate/residential error ?


What is their need to have the limit to 30mph so they can drive at 30-35mph

Why are people so against having to drive 10mph slower around housing estates or areas with pedestrians

No one has said why they need to go that fast and have a problem going a little slower

 

[Robobum]

So if we raise the limit to 85 - remembering that's just the limit and not many actually stick to it - you then get people going well over the limit and into the 90's and into a ton

Can you not see the increased risk that would create ?

You've argued that dangling a carrot doesn't make people want to drink alcohol on the mway.

But a speeding carrot cannot be ignored?

 

[Blue in Munich]

Germany manages quite well with no limit on a significant percentage of its Autobahn network; funnily enough in 10 years in total living there, rather than every motorway journey being like a scene from Mad Max, it actually felt very safe.

Back to you.

Not disputing what you say in any way, but could that be because of the standard or the attitude of the drivers rather than the level at which the limit is set? Not having driven there I have no first hand experience, be interested to hear your view.

 

[stevie_r]

No one has said why they need to go that fast and have a problem going a little slower

Perhaps some people feel like me, that driving isn't a pastime or hobby, it's a means to an end. The car is a means of getting somewhere, the sooner I am there (and less time spent in the car) the better.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Germany manages quite well with no limit on a significant percentage of its Autobahn network; funnily enough in 10 years in total living there, rather than every motorway journey being like a scene from Mad Max, it actually felt very safe.

Back to you.

We aren't Germany

If Germany was the stand up example why aren't all countries following example ? Why in fact are most countries at a Lower speed limit than ours

I have driven on the autobahn and the volume of traffic is nothing compared to what we see on our motorways

Do you really think our motorways and volume of traffic can cope with cars flying around at 90-100 mph ?

Not in a million years and thankfully there is no need to increase the limit

 

[stevie_r]

Not disputing what you say in any way, but could that be because of the standard or the attitude of the drivers rather than the level at which the limit is set? Not having driven there I have no first hand experience, be interested to hear your view.

The argument here has been about the lethality of a higher speed limit, not the standard of attitude of drivers. Wild stab in the dark here, I would suggest the standard of motorway driving in Germany may be a little higher than the UK - that would/ could only be down to the fact that significant portions of the Autobanh network have no speed limit.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Perhaps some people feel like me, that driving isn't a pastime or hobby, it's a means to an end. The car is a means of getting somewhere, the sooner I am there (and less time spent in the car) the better.

But how much difference does 10mph slower in urban areas really make ?

Mins ?

Does your life revolve around saving mins in a car journey ?

 

[stevie_r]

We aren't Germany

If Germany was the stand up example why aren't all countries following example ? Why in fact are most countries at a Lower speed limit than ours No Idea

I have driven on the autobahn and the volume of traffic is nothing compared to what we see on our motorways - Complete and utter rubbish

Do you really think our motorways and volume of traffic can cope with cars flying around at 90-100 mph ? They already do

Not in a million years and thankfully there is no need to increase the limit

There you go

 

[Blue in Munich]

But drivers don't adhere to 30 mph limits so they are actually going a lot faster

Yes 20mph shouldn't be everywhere

But why do people need to go 30mph in a housing estate/residential error ?


What is their need to have the limit to 30mph so they can drive at 30-35mph

Why are people so against having to drive 10mph slower around housing estates or areas with pedestrians

No one has said why they need to go that fast and have a problem going a little slower

So why aren't drivers adhering to the limit, and will lowering the limit change anything? You keep going on about pedestrians being about, but a lot of times they aren't about on housing estates. There's no reason why 30mph is inappropriate on a housing estate at 5am on a summer morning, yet on the same road at 8.30am on a winter's morning it could be totally inappropriate, yet you want the same blunt instrument applied to both scenarios, despite the fact that if people drove appropriately it is unnecessary and that it will reduce the quality of life for the residents by increasing levels of pollution.

 

[Snelly]

I do about 25000 miles a year, most of it on the motorway and I think that 90mph is what the speed limit on motorways should be raised to. If it is raining, it should automatically drop to 75mph.

Tiredness kills more people than speed. That is a fact.

 

[Foxholer]

Care to explain how travelling slower can improve your travel time?

Read what I posted! Some circumstances. And it's overall travelling times, not necessarily individual ones - though that can happen in cases like the Staples Corner circumstances mentioned several pages ago. It's part of the philosophy behind Variable Speed Limits as well.
Slower speeds allow traffic to 'merge' better - or even feed in at junctions/from side roads. So overall travel time is reduced. And there are times when individual ones are too. Check out the studies!

Btw. To average 70 on a reasonably, or even sparsely, populated Motorway I believe you'd have to be doing about 90-95 as a 'target' speed! I'm not entirely certain, but think RAC/AA etc used to use about 50 as the average speed for Motorway travel!

Oh and that 'up to 20%' was seen in a study I saw quite a while ago. So, out of date and probably not absolutely reliable, but not simply 'picked out of space' either - though it did have my usual disclaimer.

I do about 25000 miles a year, most of it on the motorway and I think that 90mph is what the speed limit on motorways should be raised to. If it is raining, it should automatically drop to 75mph.

This just confirms my view that you are a selfish b'tard!

75 is Way, way to high in the wet imo. Check out the difference in stopping distance!

Tiredness kills more people than speed. That is a fact.

On Motorways, Yes. But this thread is about 30 MPH (and possibly 20Mph) areas.

 

[Blue in Munich]

The argument here has been about the lethality of a higher speed limit, not the standard of attitude of drivers. Wild stab in the dark here, I would suggest the standard of motorway driving in Germany may be a little higher than the UK - that would/ could only be down to the fact that significant portions of the Autobanh network have no speed limit.

I think the two go hand in hand; if your drivers are better trained or have a better attitude then they can be trusted with greater responsibility, i.e. a higher speed limit. I don't think that there is any dispute that a higher speed is more dangerous when things go wrong, but only when things go wrong. Are you saying you believe that the drivers in Germany are better because the higher speed limit forces them to be so?

 

[G_Mulligan]

Two cars going along - one at 70 and one at 80 break at the same time - when the one at 70 stops the one at 80 is still travelling at 71 mph and then takes a further 70-80 metres to stop. It's been proven by the Thames Valley police when lookin at stopping distances and impact speeds from 20 mph up to 100 mph.

but the 70mph is not coming to a dead stop, I am talking about motorways and dual carriageways where I am most of the time simply keeping up with traffic in the fast lane. I have never felt out of control and if someone breaks in front of me I have never felt in danger of going into the back of them. They may break hard and go down to 40 fairly quickly but I can comfortably respond to the same myself. I think the problem arises when people are doing between 80-90 and come up hard and fast on someone overtaking at around 70. If the 70 breaks at this point then the fast car has no where to go. I don't do this and will slow down to leave a good gap until the 70mph moves back over before speeding up again with a clear road ahead.

Also doing 50 in a 70 is for me extremely slow and drivers behind have every right to feel impatient and want to get past.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

There you go

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/may/13/speed-limits-reduce-number-road-deaths

Couple of things that stand out from this article

Number of deaths on Motorways in Germany - in 2008 =495 , in the UK it is 157

In 2006 out of the 645 deaths on the Autobahn - 67% were on the unrestricted stretches

In Germany - they have a higher percentage of road deaths on the motorways compared to us between 07-09 it was 12 % compared to 6%

yep looking at that i will stick to having restricted speeds on the motorway :thup:

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Bubblewrap is the answer

Cover all vehicles and pedestrians with it, and any collisions will just bounce off and with a safe cushioned fall, no injuries

like zorbing, but on a larger scale.

Look I just come up with the ideas, its up to the engineers to make them work :thup:

 

[Deleted member 15344]

So why aren't drivers adhering to the limit, and will lowering the limit change anything? You keep going on about pedestrians being about, but a lot of times they aren't about on housing estates. There's no reason why 30mph is inappropriate on a housing estate at 5am on a summer morning, yet on the same road at 8.30am on a winter's morning it could be totally inappropriate, yet you want the same blunt instrument applied to both scenarios, despite the fact that if people drove appropriately it is unnecessary and that it will reduce the quality of life for the residents by increasing levels of pollution.

people drive over the speed limit because as Steve said - people want to get to places quicker - they are have no awareness of others on the road or pedestrians or cyclists etc.

Hobbit has already told his story of being hit by a car in a residential area and now being in constant pain. My friend lost of daughter after being hit by a car in a residential area - the experts telling her parents that is the car was doing 20 she would still be alive is a good enough reason for me to blanket residential areas to 20 and add chicances and speed bumps and any method needed to slow people down in these areas.

People have become selfish - they dont care about the potential accident they could cause , the mums in their big 4x4's feel safe enough in their big tank they feel they can drive a bit quicker.

Until peoples attitude to driving in this country change then keep applying measures to slow them down as far as im concerned.

Can you tell me why anyone "needs" to drive over any speed limit .

 

[User20205]

Bubblewrap is the answer

Cover all vehicles and pedestrians with it, and any collisions will just bounce off and with a safe cushioned fall, no injuries

like zorbing, but on a larger scale.

Look I just come up with the ideas, its up to the engineers to make them work :thup:

Make them stop Phil, you've got the power!!! Just one little click

If there is one more 20 page thread on 'the inside of a ping pong ball' I'm going to spontaneously combust