Speeding in a thirty limit

[chrisd]

There will be signs telling you what speed limit is on the dual carriageway unfortunately - i know its harsh mate.

When I was snapped, the police paperwork stated clearly that not all cameras are supported by speed signs and it is up to the driver to know the correct speed by virtue of the street lighting

 

[In_The_Rough]

More Figures


http://www.roadsafetygb.org.uk/news/1191.html

So in other words all these groups and bodies blurt out figures and they all vary, so in reality nobody has a damn clue and just use them to prove/disprove their own agenda

 

[Blue in Munich]

I can't believe what I am reading from some people, saying that it would not matter if you dropped the speed limit, people would still be getting killed. Think about these facts of speed against thinking and stopping distances.

At 20 it is 6M and 6M
At 30 it is 9M and 14M

So doing 20 you get an extra 3M of thinking time and an extra 8M to stop, so you get 11M of extra time to stop when that kid runs out in front of you. It it is not so much the ability to stop in time, but he fact that it gives you more chance to avoid him.

You only get that extra time if the kid is considerate enough to run out in front of you at a point when you can see them. Unfortunately at either 20 or 30mph, a number of pedestrians walk out, usually from between parked vehicles, at a point when there is nothing that can be done by the driver to prevent it, because they can't see them. In my opinion an awful lot more urban accidents would be prevented if parking was removed from urban streets and visibility splays at junctions were more appropriate but that would cost councils revenue and upset an awful lot of of residents, so a large cause of the accidents doesn't get addressed.

 

[williamalex1]

What, according to etiquette , is the correct position to stand at whilst being given a talking to by a traffic cop?

In the dock is where you'll stand

 

[In_The_Rough]

You only get that extra time if the kid is considerate enough to run out in front of you at a point when you can see them. Unfortunately at either 20 or 30mph, a number of pedestrians walk out, usually from between parked vehicles, at a point when there is nothing that can be done by the driver to prevent it, because they can't see them. In my opinion an awful lot more urban accidents would be prevented if parking was removed from urban streets and visibility splays at junctions were more appropriate but that would cost councils revenue and upset an awful lot of of residents, so a large cause of the accidents doesn't get addressed.

The do this in parts of the USA. Not only does it look better visability is greater reduced. When I went a year or two ago 1 community had this in place and I asked about when they have visitors and the answer was TOUGH if the cars cannot go on your drive then they must find other means of getting there otherwise any cars spotted parked on the road will be towed. You could see from one end of the street to the other

 

[Deleted member 15344]

When I was snapped, the police paperwork stated clearly that not all cameras are supported by speed signs and it is up to the driver to know the correct speed by virtue of the street lighting

Yes the three street lights in 200 yards ( not sure if that's exact. )

They will be automatically 30 mph unless they have a sign indicating any other speed limit

 

[ger147]

I can't believe what I am reading from some people, saying that it would not matter if you dropped the speed limit, people would still be getting killed. Think about these facts of speed against thinking and stopping distances.

At 20 it is 6M and 6M
At 30 it is 9M and 14M

So doing 20 you get an extra 3M of thinking time and an extra 8M to stop, so you get 11M of extra time to stop when that kid runs out in front of you. It it is not so much the ability to stop in time, but he fact that it gives you more chance to avoid him.

Those stats are nonsense as not all cars stop at the same rate. A car with carbon ceramic breaks will come to a halt in a MUCH shorter distance than an ordinary car and it also varies from driver to driver and on prevailing road conditions. There is no 1 single figure for stopping distance from a certain speed for all cars.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

You only get that extra time if the kid is considerate enough to run out in front of you at a point when you can see them. Unfortunately at either 20 or 30mph, a number of pedestrians walk out, usually from between parked vehicles, at a point when there is nothing that can be done by the driver to prevent it, because they can't see them. In my opinion an awful lot more urban accidents would be prevented if parking was removed from urban streets and visibility splays at junctions were more appropriate but that would cost councils revenue and upset an awful lot of of residents, so a large cause of the accidents doesn't get addressed.

But if you remove parking doesnt that result in an increase in road speed?

one line of thought re traffic calming was to do away with all parking enforcement, encourage parking wherever you want as this results in lower vehicle speeds

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Those stats are nonsense as not all cars stop at the same rate. A car with carbon ceramic breaks will come to a halt in a MUCH shorter distance than an ordinary car and it also varies from driver to driver and on prevailing road conditions. There is no 1 single figure for stopping distance from a certain speed for all cars.

The amount of cars with ceramic breaks on the road in sure is very minimal

Breaking distances are done on an average using an average car in good conditions

Just because you have a car with superior breaks should mean that you can go a bit quicker because you will stop a bit quicker

 

[Foxholer]

I find it hard to believe that people are so much against driving slower through residential areas. So what is more important? You going 30 or some kid running into the middle of a road to fetch a ball and still being able to play with it again. If you believe the facts or not, the fact that matters is that you have more chance of surviving getting hit at 20 than 30.

Where have I stated that I am 'so much against driving slower through residential areas'. I am definitely against the use of misquoted, misguided or plain made up numbers - to justify anything!

The article I linked to when calling B/S on Hobbit is definitely worth a read - an unemotive assessment of the issue! It states that TRL research found that simply changing the speed limit had very little effect - so 20mph zones need to be self-policing imo!

And it's definitely worth being aware that some figures are simply unusable. If simply the number of incidents is counted - as opposed to incidents per thousand (or whatever) vehicles, then the numbers are unreliable for analysis - as no allowance is made for motorists that use alternative routes! It's the usual case of L;DL and Statistics!

 

[ger147]

The amount of cars with ceramic breaks on the road in sure is very minimal

Breaking distances are done on an average using an average car in good conditions

Just because you have a car with superior breaks should mean that you can go a bit quicker because you will stop a bit quicker

My point was that the published braking distance figures are not FACTS. At best, they are approximations made on the back of several assumptions which even the people doing the calculations know to be false e.g. everyone's reaction time is the same.

 

[Blue in Munich]

But if you remove parking doesnt that result in an increase in road speed?

one line of thought re traffic calming was to do away with all parking enforcement, encourage parking wherever you want as this results in lower vehicle speeds

It's a possibility Fragger, but if you remove all the obstructions to progress and then have more predictable journey times it can reduce the perceived need to speed. As chrisd confirmed in this thread, his speeding occurred out of frustration at being delayed and late for a deadline, so when he hit an open road his speed increased. Removing parking certainly reduces the hiding places from which a pedestrian can emerge, and they are the most likely to be the losers in a accident.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

But if you remove parking doesnt that result in an increase in road speed?

one line of thought re traffic calming was to do away with all parking enforcement, encourage parking wherever you want as this results in lower vehicle speeds

Remove parking possibly gives the illusion of a quieter road

Are people in that much of a rush they need to drive the car faster

Why are people looking for other ways when the simplest is to curb speeds in certain areas.

Who really needs to do more than 20mph in a housing estate or through any residential area ?

 

[Hobbit]

While I have sympathy for your condition, I'm calling B-S on those figures! Do you have a reference or link? I've certainly seen numbers (from rather old documents - and from US rather than UK) that are markedly different to those!

And without prejudicing the desire for saving lives, I believe there's quite a difference between the speeds at which a collision occurs and the speed limit of the area - the collision is normally quite a bit less than the limit. Can't find the details/reference though.

I don't grab figures out of the air Foxy. The site I got the figures from was the SDT site in the US. So which site is accurate?

Bizarrely, only 2% of pedestrian deaths include vehicles exceeding the speed limits.

The best site for stats is the Dept of Transport... nice to read that pedestrian deaths has dropped from over 850 in 2000 to 420 in 2012. Maybe road safety campaigns, including actively targeting speeders is worthwhile.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

My point was that the published braking distance figures are not FACTS. At best, they are approximations made on the back of several assumptions which even the people doing the calculations know to be false e.g. everyone's reaction time is the same.

They are facts though - they have been proven by physical using a car to physical show the stopping distances

 

[ger147]

They are facts though - they have been proven by physical using a car to physical show the stopping distances

Only for that one car & driver so not facts at all I'm afraid.

 

[Blue in Munich]

My point was that the published braking distance figures are not FACTS. At best, they are approximations made on the back of several assumptions which even the people doing the calculations know to be false e.g. everyone's reaction time is the same.

As far as braking distances, as opposed to overall stopping distances, are concerned, they are calculated on a skid to stop basis. With a locked wheel the type of brakes are a complete irrelevance, the road surface and the tyres will have a much bigger effect.

 

[Foxholer]

I don't grab figures out of the air Foxy.

Bizarrely, only 2% of pedestrian deaths include vehicles exceeding the speed limits.

The best site for stats is the Dept of Transport... nice to read that pedestrian deaths has dropped from over 850 in 2000 to 420 in 2012. Maybe road safety campaigns, including actively targeting speeders is worthwhile.

So link? Reference? I provided one on my challenge (after you picked it up for quote).

I'm still calling B/S until shown the numbers!

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Only for that one car & driver so not facts at all I'm afraid.

The difference between most cars bar your super cars is going to be very minimal

 

[Deleted member 15344]

So link? Reference? I provided one on my challenge (after you picked it up for quote).

I'm still calling B/S until shown the numbers!

http://www.rospa.com/about/currentcampaigns/publichealth/info/rs4-casestudy-20-mph-zones.pdf


http://www.roadsafetygb.org.uk/misc...in Residential Areas by Shops and Schools.pdf