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Speeding in a thirty limit

Foxholer said:
Excuse?

Reason?

And probably no attempt to educate likely victims so they can avoid getting hit in the first place!

Has the Congestion Charge actually reduced congestion? Or significantly improved Public Transport? Or is it simply another 'tax' like VAT - that was to fund the cost of EU (as was)!
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Have to agree with the Fox here. What happens when somebody gets hit by a car doing 20mph and dies do we lower it to 10 mph. Bit of a silly argument to be honest. At the end of the day motorists are an easy target for revenue for the governments and the thing that is really annoying is that very little seems to get spent on the transport network so where is the money going? War funds and EU more than likely.
 
Foxholer said:
Excuse?

Reason?

And probably no attempt to educate likely victims so they can avoid getting hit in the first place!

Has the Congestion Charge actually reduced congestion? Or significantly improved Public Transport? Or is it simply another 'tax' like VAT - that was to fund the cost of EU (as was)!
Click to expand...

I have no idea about the congestion charge

And this first part was you are far more likely to survive getting hit by a car doing 20 than you are doing 30 as opposed to lowering it to 20 to increase revenue
 
In_The_Rough said:
Have to agree with the Fox here. What happens when somebody gets hit by a car doing 20mph and dies do we lower it to 10 mph. Bit of a silly argument to be honest. At the end of the day motorists are an easy target for revenue for the governments and the thing that is really annoying is that very little seems to get spent on the transport network so where is the money going? War funds and EU more than likely.
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Preserving life is a silly argument ?
 
Pin-seeker said:
17 years of driving & no points on my licence.
But receive 6 points on here for upsetting some one.
Seriously you can't make it up.
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He's a sensitive soul. you should know better then to hurt his feelings.. ;)
 
Liverpoolphil said:
Preserving life is a silly argument ?
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Where do you stop though that is my point, it will come to a time when people on foot will be going faster than the cars. Some people will still die by being hit by a car at 20 mph they only need to bang there head on the ground after impact so what then lower it to 10 mph as you are less likely to die than being hit at 20 mph. More need to be done to stop people getting hit by cars, eg people keeping children until control at all times when near the road instead of letting them run all over the place, people just walking out into the road without even looking, idiots who see traffic coming but walk out into the road anyway and just expect the cars to stop for them and yes I have seen this with my own eyes as well as on Youtube. Seems to be a witch hunt to blame motorists all the time when somebody is hit when the real finger pointing sometimes should be at the person who has been hit, not all the time granted but why are they on the road when there is traffic nearby. There are a whole host of ways to cut down accidents and to just keep lowering speed limits all the time so everyone is driving at snails pace is not the answer, I still say the lower the speed limit is it is easier to catch people out and dish out fines which is a source of revenue for the government. Why have a fine system then, get caught speeding and 2 week ban get caught again 4 weeks etc depending on the severity of the offence, the fines are there because they are a revenue stream for the governments and nobody will convince me otherwise.
 
murphthemog said:
Back to the original question.

Answer, 35 in a 30 gets you pinged, 34 doesn't.

Guess what? I was doing 35.

Who gets to go on a speed awareness course? Me.

And I was driving down a road, in a 30, where the houses end ( I was past them), and 100 yards later the limit changes to 60. I got pinged by a mobile camera unit just short of the national speed limit sign, at 35 in a 30. According to the paperwork, if I'd been doing 34 I'd have been fine. But is wasn't.

Fair do's I was speeding, but I wondered how many would think this was within tolerance.
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Are you feeling a combination of frustration and hatred for the police who knowingly set up their speed TRAP in an area where they know people will be speeding up slightly.... or do you feel that 100yrd stretch of road is a notorious accident blackspot?
 
In_The_Rough said:
Where do you stop though that is my point, it will come to a time when people on foot will be going faster than the cars. Some people will still die by being hit by a car at 20 mph they only need to bang there head on the ground after impact so what then lower it to 10 mph as you are less likely to die than being hit at 20 mph. More need to be done to stop people getting hit by cars, eg people keeping children until control at all times when near the road instead of letting them run all over the place, people just walking out into the road without even looking, idiots who see traffic coming but walk out into the road anyway and just expect the cars to stop for them and yes I have seen this with my own eyes as well as on Youtube. Seems to be a witch hunt to blame motorists all the time when somebody is hit when the real finger pointing sometimes should be at the person who has been hit, not all the time granted but why are they on the road when there is traffic nearby. There are a whole host of ways to cut down accidents and to just keep lowering speed limits all the time so everyone is driving at snails pace is not the answer, I still say the lower the speed limit is it is easier to catch people out and dish out fines which is a source of revenue for the government. Why have a fine system then, get caught speeding and 2 week ban get caught again 4 weeks etc depending on the severity of the offence, the fines are there because they are a revenue stream for the governments and nobody will convince me otherwise.
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You stop when the numbers of people killed by speeding - and drink driving and using the mobile is reduced to zero

That's when you stop being concerned about road safety

And yes it includes raising awareness for pedestrians - but you can't always stop a kid from running out chasing a ball - if you are doing 30 then there is a 20% chance of fatality - I think it's 50/50 at 40 mph

At 20 mph that risk is significantly decreased and I have seen 15mph limits in some areas

Do you need to go faster through housing estates ?

Housing estates where they have lowered the limit don't have speed cameras to raise revenue - the rely on very visible signage and common sense from motorists

Yes in the past council used to use speed cameras as a cash cow - those days are gone and most of those cameras have now gone or empty

When you get caught and offered a speed awareness - the fee doesn't even cover the whole cost

If you are getting three points and a nominal £60 then the fee covers the costs

If you are getting a bigger fine than you are going to court and are driving considerably faster than the speed limit and deserve the punishment

I believe all drivers should sit in on a drivers awareness course - and possibly they could look to reduce insurance for those that do that

And yes a banning system could be included as well to improve awareness
 
Liverpoolphil said:
You stop when the numbers of people killed by speeding - and drink driving and using the mobile is reduced to zero Will never happen, always been there and always will.
That's when you stop being concerned about road safety

And yes it includes raising awareness for pedestrians - but you can't always stop a kid from running out chasing a ball - if you are doing 30 then there is a 20% chance of fatality - I think it's 50/50 at 40 mph No always no but a lot of parents simply do not know where their kids are or up to. Not just kids at fault either, far too many adults just walk out without a care in the world

At 20 mph that risk is significantly decreased and I have seen 15mph limits in some areas Maybe but as I said some people will still end up dying so then what reduce speed more to where it is quicker to push the car. Has to be a cut off point

Do you need to go faster through housing estates ? Probably not but people do which is why it is as vital to make sure pedestrians are not on suicide missions

Housing estates where they have lowered the limit don't have speed cameras to raise revenue - the rely on very visible signage and common sense from motorists

Yes in the past council used to use speed cameras as a cash cow - those days are gone and most of those cameras have now gone or empty

When you get caught and offered a speed awareness - the fee doesn't even cover the whole cost

If you are getting three points and a nominal £60 then the fee covers the costs Cost of what a bit of paper from the cop and admin fee from the court

If you are getting a bigger fine than you are going to court and are driving considerably faster than the speed limit and deserve the punishment Why have the fine though an automatic ban may be more of a learning curve
I believe all drivers should sit in on a drivers awareness course - and possibly they could look to reduce insurance for those that do that

And yes a banning system could be included as well to improve awareness
Click to expand...
On that we agree
 
A pedestrian hit @ 30mph has a 27% chance of surviving.

A pedestrian hit @ 20mph has an 87% chance of surviving.

BUT a pedestrian hit @ 40mph has only a 1% chance of survival.

Just over 8yrs I was hit @ 30mph, and here I sit 8 yrs later suffering 24/7 pain. Pretty much everything I do involves pain, including trying to sleep, and for that there's some great painkillers....... that wreck your gut causing further problems. Maybe with some education I wouldn't have been walking along the PAVEMENT!! I could give you a list of what the last 8yrs have been like...

What difference would it make to your journey time if your speed limit was dropped from 30 to 20? In truth, the vast majority of your journey isn't spent as high as 30 around town anyway, especially in the residential areas. In time, how long does your average journey around town take, and how much longer would it take if for those brief periods you were at 30 you now travelled at 20?

And finally, do you feel you should put someone's life at serious risk for the sake of being 10mins early?
 
Hobbit said:
A pedestrian hit @ 30mph has a 27% chance of surviving.

A pedestrian hit @ 20mph has an 87% chance of surviving.

BUT a pedestrian hit @ 40mph has only a 1% chance of survival.

Just over 8yrs I was hit @ 30mph, and here I sit 8 yrs later suffering 24/7 pain. Pretty much everything I do involves pain, including trying to sleep, and for that there's some great painkillers....... that wreck your gut causing further problems. Maybe with some education I wouldn't have been walking along the PAVEMENT!! I could give you a list of what the last 8yrs have been like...

What difference would it make to your journey time if your speed limit was dropped from 30 to 20? In truth, the vast majority of your journey isn't spent as high as 30 around town anyway, especially in the residential areas. In time, how long does your average journey around town take, and how much longer would it take if for those brief periods you were at 30 you now travelled at 20?

And finally, do you feel you should put someone's life at serious risk for the sake of being 10mins early?
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That's awful to hear mate :(

Sounds like you are lucky to be alive - unfortunately many others aren't

Speeding will only ever save someone minutes - it's not worth it in the long run
 
Hobbit said:
A pedestrian hit @ 30mph has a 27% chance of surviving.

A pedestrian hit @ 20mph has an 87% chance of surviving.

BUT a pedestrian hit @ 40mph has only a 1% chance of survival.
Click to expand...

While I have sympathy for your condition, I'm calling B-S on those figures! Do you have a reference or link? I've certainly seen numbers (from rather old documents - and from US rather than UK) that are markedly different to those! And here's a link to a fairly authoratitive organisation's report that certainly disagrees with your figures! http://www.rospa.com/roadsafety/advice/highway/info/20-mph-zone-factsheet.pdf

And without prejudicing the desire for saving lives, I believe there's quite a difference between the speeds at which a collision occurs and the speed limit of the area - the collision is normally quite a bit less than the limit. Can't find the details/reference though.

PhilTheFragger said:
What, according to etiquette , is the correct position to stand at whilst being given a talking to by a traffic cop?
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And is it acceptable to attempt to 'line him up'?

Phil. You are being a bit 'Rocker-ish'! :whistle:
 
Last edited:
I can't believe what I am reading from some people, saying that it would not matter if you dropped the speed limit, people would still be getting killed. Think about these facts of speed against thinking and stopping distances.

At 20 it is 6M and 6M
At 30 it is 9M and 14M

So doing 20 you get an extra 3M of thinking time and an extra 8M to stop, so you get 11M of extra time to stop when that kid runs out in front of you. It it is not so much the ability to stop in time, but he fact that it gives you more chance to avoid him.
 
Hobbit said:
A pedestrian hit @ 30mph has a 27% chance of surviving.

A pedestrian hit @ 20mph has an 87% chance of surviving.

BUT a pedestrian hit @ 40mph has only a 1% chance of survival.

Just over 8yrs I was hit @ 30mph, and here I sit 8 yrs later suffering 24/7 pain. Pretty much everything I do involves pain, including trying to sleep, and for that there's some great painkillers....... that wreck your gut causing further problems. Maybe with some education I wouldn't have been walking along the PAVEMENT!! I could give you a list of what the last 8yrs have been like...

What difference would it make to your journey time if your speed limit was dropped from 30 to 20? In truth, the vast majority of your journey isn't spent as high as 30 around town anyway, especially in the residential areas. In time, how long does your average journey around town take, and how much longer would it take if for those brief periods you were at 30 you now travelled at 20?

And finally, do you feel you should put someone's life at serious risk for the sake of being 10mins early?
Click to expand...

Again like Foxy I have sympathy for your plight. However your stats do seem to be a bit adrift. These figure were got from learn 2 live website

Hit by a car at 20 mph, 1 out of 40 pedestrians will be killed. 97% will survive
Hit by a car at 30 mph, 2 out of 10 pedestrians will be killed. 80% will survive
Hit by a car at 35 mph, 5 out of 10 pedestrians will be killed. 50% will survive
Hit by a car at 40 mph, 9 out of 10 pedestrians will be killed. 10% will survive.
 
Foxholer said:
While I have sympathy for your condition, I'm calling B-S on those figures! Do you have a reference or link? I've certainly seen numbers (from rather old documents - and from US rather than UK) that are markedly different to those!

And without prejudicing the desire for saving lives, I believe there's quite a difference between the speeds at which a collision occurs and the speed limit of the area - the collision is normally quite a bit less than the limit. Can't find the details/reference though.
Click to expand...

I find it hard to believe that people are so much against driving slower through residential areas. So what is more important? You going 30 or some kid running into the middle of a road to fetch a ball and still being able to play with it again. If you believe the facts or not, the fact that matters is that you have more chance of surviving getting hit at 20 than 30.
 
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