Speeding in a thirty limit

[Deleted member 15344]

A few issues. Car speedos over-read speed, so when your indicator says you are doing X you are almost always doing less, but never doing more. Hence the margin for error.

The basic concept of speed limits is a perfectly reasonable one, but it is distorted by local councils attempts to raise money (although that is now changing) and NIMBYs who have pull with a local council and get their part of the road designated as a 30 when it really does not need to be, and it sits in between sections of 40 or 50 providing nice little speed traps. These areas do nothing to promote road safety.

Slow driving causes many accidents by causing clumping of traffic, and MPVs with mothers more interested in looking into the back to tell off the kids off and causing other cars to swerve. These culprits are usually not in the accident but just leave the trail of destruction behind them.

The changes off speed limits are now done in conjunction with the Highway Agencies using previous collision reports and risks

Areas get reduced speed limits and speed cameras due to previous accidents over a 3 year and then monitored again for 3 years


If an area is a 30 or a 20 it's because there have been previous incidents and there is risk of more collisions unless the speed is culled

The days of making money for councils have been gone for a number of years now

 

[NorfolkShaun]

Maybe being a little pedantic here but how accurate do people think car speedometers are?

In work I am involved with plant where the sensor values constantly need calibrating (at least annually) however a car speedometer is never calibrated so really how do you know how fast are you going?

I know when you have a sat-nav in the car the speedometer always reads about 10% higher than the sat-nav

All i'm thinking is that if you can drive at 34 in a 30 and be safe from a speeding ticket how do you know if you are doing 30 or 26 or 35 if nothing is ever calibrated other than the camera that is going to catch you.

I guess some would say that's why you have the 10% grace ....

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

HID got done doing 40mph in a 30mph. As she already had 3 pts on her licence and had already also done a speed awareness course - court summons - £380 fine (inc cost) and 4pts. Now paranoid about speeding and will stick to the speed limit come what may - no matter what other drivers might think of her and then try and do. She says it's awful the irritation and anger towards her that drivers show (flashing lights, swearing, hand gestures) because she is sticking to the speed limit - and then the risks they take in passing her.

 

[USER1999]

The speedometer in my car pretty much mirrors the speed the sat nav says I'm doing. It's probably the only part of my car that works correctly!

 

[Ethan]

The changes off speed limits are now done in conjunction with the Highway Agencies using previous collision reports and risks

Areas get reduced speed limits and speed cameras due to previous accidents over a 3 year and then monitored again for 3 years


If an area is a 30 or a 20 it's because there have been previous incidents and there is risk of more collisions unless the speed is culled

The days of making money for councils have been gone for a number of years now

But some of the cameras and speed limits remain from the money making days. Many of these are not based on historical accident patterns. Not that the accidents are necessarily caused in the same areas where they occur. Sometimes bunching in one place is released somewhere else, with accidents. The correct solution is to relieve the bunching not impose further bunching by arbitrary speed limits.

And the areas which get reduced limits them displace their accidents to the areas just outside. A bit of a zero sum game, perhaps?




PS. Never had a penalty point.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

HID got done doing 40mph in a 30mph. As she already had 3 pts on her licence and had already also done a speed awareness course - court summons - £380 fine (inc cost) and 4pts. Now paranoid about speeding and will stick to the speed limit come what may - no matter what other drivers might think of her and then try and do. She says it's awful the irritation and anger towards her that drivers show (flashing lights, swearing, hand gestures) because she is sticking to the speed limit - and then the risks they take in passing her.

15% of people who take the speed awareness course get another ticket within 6 months

I think everyone caught speeding should do an awareness course but also increase the price

 

[Pin-seeker]

HID got done doing 40mph in a 30mph. As she already had 3 pts on her licence and had already also done a speed awareness course - court summons - £380 fine (inc cost) and 4pts. Now paranoid about speeding and will stick to the speed limit come what may - no matter what other drivers might think of her and then try and do. She says it's awful the irritation and anger towards her that drivers show (flashing lights, swearing, hand gestures) because she is sticking to the speed limit - and then the risks they take in passing her.

Obviously the 3pts & speed awareness course didn't do the trick. Did your wife use to get annoyed when she was stuck behind some one sticking to the speed limit?

 

[Pin-seeker]

15% of people who take the speed awareness course get another ticket within 6 months

I think everyone caught speeding should do an awareness course but also increase the price

I'm sorry but I get the feeling that you just pull facts out the air at times just to back up your opinion.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

But some of the cameras and speed limits remain from the money making days. Many of these are not based on historical accident patterns. Not that the accidents are necessarily caused in the same areas where they occur. Sometimes bunching in one place is released somewhere else, with accidents. The correct solution is to relieve the bunching not impose further bunching by arbitrary speed limits.

And the areas which get reduced limits them displace their accidents to the areas just outside. A bit of a zero sum game, perhaps?




PS. Never had a penalty point.

So are accidents being caused because the limit is too low or because people ignore the limits and just go over the limit ?

Limits and speed cameras don't cause accidents - it's the drivers not observing the limits correctly whilst others do

I drive to work through all the limits - there is a 30 onto a 40 then a 50 and then NSP and it goes up and down throughout the journey. It's easily done to follow the limits and not get flashed by the camera and you can see why the limits are there.

If we stick to the limits then there should be minimal problems

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I'm sorry but I get the feeling that you just pull facts out the air at times just to back up your opinion.

Thank you for letting me know :thup:

 

[Pin-seeker]

Thank you for letting me know :thup:

No problem at all :thup:

 

[hovis]

Each county is different. Staffs is 10% + 3mph.

We hold the speed awareness courses at our station and what amazes me is when we see the attendees arrive and handbrake it into our yard!!!!!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Obviously the 3pts & speed awareness course didn't do the trick. Did your wife use to get annoyed when she was stuck behind some one sticking to the speed limit?

No - she just usually has too much on her mind when driving and is not good at watching her speed. A couple of years back my daughter complained that I drove too slow (we were in town) - and mum drove faster. I just try and drive to the speed limit (when it's 30mph)!

Now she is a nervous and paranoid driver (being hassled by irritable impatient drivers) worried abut getting caught for speeding again as she'd then be just one more speeding offence from being banned - yes - I know

 

[Ethan]

So are accidents being caused because the limit is too low or because people ignore the limits and just go over the limit ?

Limits and speed cameras don't cause accidents - it's the drivers not observing the limits correctly whilst others do

I drive to work through all the limits - there is a 30 onto a 40 then a 50 and then NSP and it goes up and down throughout the journey. It's easily done to follow the limits and not get flashed by the camera and you can see why the limits are there.

If we stick to the limits then there should be minimal problems

The counsel of perfection argument. That rarely works and road and traffic planning should not assume it.

In the real world, bunching most certainly causes accidents. If it doesn't, then please explain how variable speed limits on the M25 (and other motorways) work.

There is some evidence that speed cameras do cause accidents, not directly at the site but nearby.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

So are accidents being caused because the limit is too low or because people ignore the limits and just go over the limit ?

Limits and speed cameras don't cause accidents - it's the drivers not observing the limits correctly whilst others do

I drive to work through all the limits - there is a 30 onto a 40 then a 50 and then NSP and it goes up and down throughout the journey. It's easily done to follow the limits and not get flashed by the camera and you can see why the limits are there.

If we stick to the limits then there should be minimal problems

100% with you on this one...

 

[Deleted member 15344]

No - she just usually has too much on her mind when driving and is not good at watching her speed. A couple of years back my daughter complained that I drove too slow (we were in town) - and mum drove faster. I just try and drive to the speed limit (when it's 30mph)!

Now she is a nervous and paranoid driver (being hassled by irritable impatient drivers) worried abut getting caught for speeding again as she'd then be just one more speeding offence from being banned - yes - I know

Sorry but having too much on her mind and not concentrating is signs of a very bad driver ( no disrespect )

Seen it before with a girl who played hockey with my oH was very "ditzy" but ended up causing a major accident and some serious casualties

It's the same when you see people on mobile phones and dancing and singing to music - they aren't concentrating whilst in charge of what could be classed as a lethal weapon !

 

[Deleted member 15344]

The counsel of perfection argument. That rarely works and road and traffic planning should not assume it.

In the real world, bunching most certainly causes accidents. If it doesn't, then please explain how variable speed limits on the M25 (and other motorways) work.

There is some evidence that speed cameras do cause accidents, not directly at the site but nearby.

In the real world people should slow down

Bunching is caused I believe by people speeding then arriving at cars doing the speed limit or slowing down for a reason.

Again accidents will occur at speed camera sites or nearby - because people are speeding and then have to stop suddenly to avoid getting caught

I see it every morning

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Observation abut attitudes to speeds.

Fuss recently over lowering speed limit on M1 south of Sheffield from 70mph to 60mph - 35mile stretch - all the usual motorist concerns raised. BIG fuss made.

Let's look at the numbers as they are easy. 35miles at 70mph takes 30minutes (obviously), 35miles at 60mph (mile a minute) takes 35mins. So all the fuss and bother and bluster was over 5minutes journey time.

And though not wishes to mix subjects - look at how opponents of HS2 ask why a 20mins off London-B'ham journey makes any difference - when to motorists 5mins extra travelling time to Sheffield seems a terrible imposition and issue.

 

[Imurg]

There is some evidence that speed cameras do cause accidents, not directly at the site but nearby.

A camera can't cause an accident.
If a driver sees a camera and slows suddenly to avoid getting flashed and gets hit up the backside, what's the cause?
The root cause is someone driving too close behind
The secondary cause is speeding.

A few years ago Clakson had the Transport Secretary on Top Gear and was having a go about cameras.
The TS said to him..
"Jeremy. We post regular Speed Limit signs when required. We now don't hide the camera. We post a sign within 1KM to warn you of a camera. We post a speed limit sign just before the camera. We paint the camera bright yellow. If you're still getting caught - who's fault is it?"
Given a clear road the majority of Drivers will break the limit....how is the camera causing the crash?
If not at the site then nearby - why? Because the drivers are accelerating to get back up to an illegal speed....?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Main road from me into Guildford goes 70mph/60mph/50mph/40mph/30mph. When I am in the 40mph section there is a sign trlling me speed camera ahead - and there is one. Limit drops to 30mph and couple of hundred yards further on there is a speed camera. It is very easy when in the 40mph stretch to gradually slow down so that by the time I reached the 30mph stretch I am not going to get flashed.

It's not difficult - and as it happens most drivers adhere to it. So if you overtake someone in the 40mph stretch as he slows down - then be it on your head. And you are the driver likely to braek hard on hitting the 30mph stretch and cause issues - following traffic also braking (because you instinctively brake if the car in front brakes suddenly) - and that is what can cause tail backs at speed camera controlled zones.