So, here's the con

You mean the additional length doesn't come from:

"Inverted Cone Technology"
"Multi-Functional Sole"
"Progressive topline thickness"
"Floating CTP structure"
"Multi-Material Cavity Badge"
"Hyperbolic Face Technology"
"Precision Notch Weighting"
"3D Muscle Pad"
"Under Cut Forged"
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I met a guy once who did actually believe that stuff.
Apparently, the nurse hadn't locked his room properly. :eek:
 
The additional length may make the clubs longer, but the gumf mentioned above makes the clubs a heck of a lot easier to hit than they used to be, especially in the long irons.
If this makes a 3i more playable, then that's a good thing (even if it is then branded a 4i).
 
The additional length may make the clubs longer, but the gumf mentioned above makes the clubs a heck of a lot easier to hit than they used to be, especially in the long irons.
If this makes a 3i more playable, then that's a good thing (even if it is then branded a 4i).
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Think you are missing the point a bit, :DThe gumf as you put it is nothing to do with what I was saying,If you go and buy a driver today its more or less the same gupf as a pros driver.The lengh of drivers most club golfers use are imo to long,as I said if you could hit them with consistancy the pros would be useing them.
 
so no matter how good these clubs unless you play a pitch and run/punch/1/2 swing you cant use any of them for getting down from 110 yards.

Phil
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Can you not just leave 120 yards or whatever is more suitable then?
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no id rather be closer, i think that the whole notion of i do better from 120 rather than 90-100 is flawed.

from 120 you are more impressed by getting anywhere on the green than you are from sub 100

the closer you are the closer you hope your next to go.

i think that having to change straight from a players cavity to a small headed blade also make these shots harder, hence why i fancy a matching mizuno players GW.

i agree with BRendy, that irons should have a loft on them, but i suppose it would be easier if they were all the same.

all in all, i hate when someone with some chunky callaways big bertha irons says "what you hitting here" as if it relates in anyway to whether he swings faster or better than me/or anyone.

but hey we cant stop the manufacturers progression so if they think this is the best for everyone then ok :)

what i dont get is that a GW isnt included with these clubs strong lofted clubs.

Phil
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Thats why I said more suitable, but the points you make about the closer you expect to be closer to the green, are valid and good.

I think bob has it spot on regarding wedges and how many "specialist" wedges you need, but surely this is driven by the consumer/player wanting more and more distance?
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granted indeed. the specialist wedges are now in here because a player with a fast swing speed(not necessarily a great player) hits his PW 140 yards!! thats insane. he cant bare to play into short par 4 with a bladed club cause he lacks the skills so then you have the need for these extra "players/GI" wedges to bring the length back down towards 100yard mark.

so actually to do what is most suitable requires an extra club not a different lay up yardage.

cause nobody is going to convince me in this life time that these new super dooper strong PW are as accurate (full swing) from 130+ than an old fuddy duddy 48/50* PW was from 100.

marketing gone mad i thinks.

Phil
 
I have to say that this "progress" in club lofts had passed me by, as I had a break from playing any serious golf for 10 years. I still use my early 90s Ping Eye 2s, and I am pretty sure that when I got them, the 9-iron had a loft of 45*. To hear that pitching wedges now have similar loft in modern clubs explains a lot. I couldn't understand why people I play with now who use new clubs are always a club or two longer than me... not that I should care of course.

When I was a junior, we used to rip the pish out of the guy who played everything off his back foot, de-lofting the club masively, but claimed he was "long with irons". This is just the same, but with help from the manufacturers!
 
cause nobody is going to convince me in this life time that these new super dooper strong PW are as accurate (full swing) from 130+ than an old fuddy duddy 48/50* PW was from 100.Phil
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You're right, but it's not a lot.

If you hit the ball 1° offline, you will be 6" more sideways for every 10yds the ball travels.

So for your 100yd vs 130yd shot, that's 18" more offline for a 1° error. It doesn't seem like so much said like that.

The opposite side of the argument is how much more often would you stay out of trouble laying up with 3 clubs less?
 
The post was about club manafacturas conning us so I think it was a valid point.
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Are we being conned or are they providing what we want or are we so gullable that we moan like mad about it and still go out and buy it...?

The majority of golfers want to hit the ball further. The manufacturers are providing clubs that will hit the ball further - assuming you can swing the club properly.
The stronger lofts are to counter the higher flight most clubheads produce now - even the blades fly higher than those of yesteryear. And don't forget the ball has a lot to do with it too.

Too many of us put too much emphasis on how far we hit the ball and not enough on how accurate we are.
I don't care if I have to hit a "5" iron 170 yards or a "6" iron - as long as I have a club to put the ball that far I don't care what number it has on the sole. It's a means of identifying a club - other than that it is irrelevent.

Standardisation is virtually impossible - they haven't managed it with shafts for the last "X" years so it's not going to happen with whole clubs anytime soon.

Work out your yardages - other peoples are irrelevent.
Have the clubs in your bag that will help you get the ball round the course in as few strokes as possible - unless it's a 6 hybrid of course.. :D
 
Manufactureres have been "delofting" irons for years, and probably decades (at least 1) - the Pros were doing it in the 80s at least

There has been no delofting for the past 4 or 5 years at least - PW lofts have been down at 45/46 for a very long time now.

My 1972 Hogan Apex PW (equaliser) is 50 degrees; my 2005 Hogan Apex FTX PW is 46 degs; i've been doing most of my pitching with my 52 deg wedge lately.
 
I wonder if Bob is looking at this extra wedge/loft con thing all wrong...

If a 4 is now a 3, a pw is now a 9 and a gw is now a PW doesnt that mean we are carrying more irons like I don't know... say some Scottish Pro living in Lincolnshire?
 
The point I was trying to make was in the old set, you bought 3-SW. Job done.
They spanned 20 deg-56 deg, all matching shafts and heads with plenty of loft for those flop shots and the hinge and hold pitches we used to play 30-40 years ago.
Now, there's no 3 iron or SW in the sets you buy today.
So now you buy 4-GW
The 4 iron is still 23 deg but the span only goes to 50 deg plus you have to buy a 3 rescue at 20 deg.
Now your 9 irons only span from 20 to 50 degres so you have to buy at least one more wedge, some even 2

So, the old set was 3-sw in 9 clubs, now it 3 rescue, 4-gw plus sw and lw....11 clubs to cover the same loft range.

How much does a specialised hybrid cost compared to a 3 iron and a set of Vokey wedges compared to a normal pw and sw.
Clever marketing or a con?
 
And in the old days that you remember Bob, they used to give you a 1, 2 and 3 wood

So they were capable of rippping you off in terms of loft gaps in the 1950s as well as now ;)
 
Simple answer. Go out, hit some balls measure the distance and write it down. I can guarantee my 7 iron for example will be shorter than others but if I hit 10 shots and averaged say 148 with the strong lofts I'd know 140 was the distance with a smooth swing and if I really wanted I'd probably get 150. Everyone hits the ball differently and so as long as you know how far you are hitting does it really matter what number is on the bottom. I don't stand there with a 6 iron in my hand thinking I'm actually hitting a 5 iron but stand there confident it is the correct club and all I have to do is swing it vaguely resembling a golfer
 
Simple answer. Go out, hit some balls measure the distance and write it down. I can guarantee my 7 iron for example will be shorter than others but if I hit 10 shots and averaged say 148 with the strong lofts I'd know 140 was the distance with a smooth swing and if I really wanted I'd probably get 150. Everyone hits the ball differently and so as long as you know how far you are hitting does it really matter what number is on the bottom. I don't stand there with a 6 iron in my hand thinking I'm actually hitting a 5 iron but stand there confident it is the correct club and all I have to do is swing it vaguely resembling a golfer
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Homer you are on the money here :)

Find out consistantly what yardage you can do with each club and shoot then them scores.

Who cares what loft is in a club if you know how far you can hit it :) :) :)

For example just look what I play with in my bag....It works for me :cool:
 
How much does a specialised hybrid cost compared to a 3 iron and a set of Vokey wedges compared to a normal pw and sw.
Clever marketing or a con?
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Neither IMO, the vast majority of handicappers can't hit a 3 iron and with the advent of the cheatsticks- hybrids- it negates the need to make sets starting at 3.

Out of interest my Mizuno's came 3 to pw and mizzy threw in a 56 in their last promo, plus their lofts on the mp53's are weaker.
 
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