Smacking

NWJocko said:
You've just proven you've no idea of the current system tbh, stop embarrassing yourself now (y) Or educate yourself before commenting as I suggested ;)

I took our Education Authority to court and know, £ for £ how much they spent "fighting" us which was about 8 times the amount of money we asked for in the first place over the 6 years of a primary school education. (y)

I'm not disagreeing there isn't enough money in the system but until you really (and I mean really) understand how budgets are spent you are in no position to spout the uninformed and offensive shite you did earlier.
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For what it's worth, I do know how the system works. I understand that additional funding is provided to schools for special needs kids. But where do you think that money comes from? It doesn't just magically appear, it comes from government funding, just like the rest of the education budget.
 
NWJocko said:
OK I'll ask you a simple question

Do you think that the £140,000 spent by the Education Authority fighting our case would have been better spent:

a) spending £30,000 to support my daughter through primary school and having £110,000 left to invest elsewhere

or

b) spending all of that £140,000 fighting us and then conceding they had no case?

I'll leave it to you to work out where money is being wasted (y)
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Simple question and simple answer. A.

I'm not defending how education authorities spend their money and for what it's worth, I wholeheartedly agree there are massive amounts of waste. I hear horror stories about it all the time from my G/F and it annoys me.

I was just pointing out some basic economics and if it touched a nerve I apologise.
 
pauldj42 said:
Once again to prove a point people have taken it to extremes!

We have adults who are abusers that weren’t smacked as kids.

We have kids who were smacked who are normal functioning adults.

Apart from the who determines what is a smack and how is it enforced? I’d be interested to know if more kids are damaged by their parents drinking and smoking in front of them in the home than by being smacked.

Finally, parenting is not easy and every family is different.
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Indeed a smack from a loving warm caring parent in a household that provides a stable loving environment could be construed as safe, as opposed to a smack from a drunken smoking layabout in household where swearing, alcohol and inappropriate behaviour around children is common place.

Is one then seen as just punishment for a childrens naughty behaviour and is the other seen as abuse?

Switch it around you have a household that provides everything a child needs but parents see the child as an obstruction or burden to their everyday life and the smack is a reminder to the child to be thankful for what they have, as opposed to a household where the parents don't have two pennies to rub together, but their child is everything and they would do anything for them, is a smack here a reminder to be careful with what they have?

Same question, Is one then seen as just punishment for a childrens naughty behaviour and is the other seen as abuse?
 
drive4show said:
Simple question and simple answer. A.

I'm not defending how education authorities spend their money and for what it's worth, I wholeheartedly agree there are massive amounts of waste. I hear horror stories about it all the time from my G/F and it annoys me.

I was just pointing out some basic economics and if it touched a nerve I apologise.
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If you were pointing out "simple economics" I could understand and discuss, the waste of money in Education Authorites is appalling now I've had the misfortune to have to look into an understand it.

But you were pretty much promoting giving up on any kids who would't "achieve" academically and send them to a special school FFS!!

Only 1 example granted but if my daughter went to a "special school" at the age of 4 as you suggest, she'd be claiming £m's in benefits over her lifetime rather than being in the position to get a job and pay some tax back into the system which (hopefully) she will be after high school.
 
Khamelion said:
All well and good, but when you have a perfectly heathly able body and able mind child having a proper melt down tantrum in the middle tesco's and Mum or Dad is just saying talking to the kid and nothing is happening, well.....

Annie stop it or I'll say stop it again, and again and again

And then they think they talking has worked because the kid has stopped the tantrum some 15mins later, no the talking didn't work the kid most likely couldn't even hear the parent talking, the kid stopped because it got bored. So you're a parent with a lot of patience, whoop dee doo, you stand there like a prize plum with no control over your kid.

As is the topic of this thread, same situation, if that was me, my mam would've made sure I was looking at her and I would've got the line "what you crying for? shut up or I wil give yousomething to cry for.", that would genreally work, but if not, there was a smack incoming, and that wouild definitely work. Standing there for 15mins while I calmed down, I don't think so.
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My kids have had massive tantrums while out and about. No big deal, certainly never crossed my mind to hit them. Usually they calmed down pretty quick when they realise I'm not interested.
 
NWJocko said:
If you were pointing out "simple economics" I could understand and discuss, the waste of money in Education Authorites is appalling now I've had the misfortune to have to look into an understand it.

But you were pretty much promoting giving up on any kids who would't "achieve" academically and send them to a special school FFS!!

Only 1 example granted but if my daughter went to a "special school" at the age of 4 as you suggest, she'd be claiming £m's in benefits over her lifetime rather than being in the position to get a job and pay some tax back into the system which (hopefully) she will be after high school.
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No I never suggested sending kids to 'special schools' I just highlighted the percentage of special needs kids that go to them. I quoted a fact, it wasn't my opinion.
 
drive4show said:
No I never suggested sending kids to 'special schools' I just highlighted the percentage of special needs kids that go to them. I quoted a fact, it wasn't my opinion.
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Really? Not sure how to copy in but below is what you posted.

"Deprives normal kids" "Majority suffer because of the minority" "Drain on the system"

They aren't facts (y)


drive4show said:
Approx 2% of special needs children go to 'special schools' the rest are integrated into normal schools. They are a massive drain on the system as the education system requires them to have allocated teaching assistants and all sorts of other requirements. This costs a huge amount of money and it deprives normal kids due to a lack of funds. Should the majority suffer because of the minority? Harsh decision to make but somebody has to make it.
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The way I have always looked at this issue is that if I had resorted to smacking, as an adult, I had ceased to be in the right. Counter productively, I would have just demonstrated to my daughter that hitting (violence) is an acceptable means to get my own way. That is not something I want her to think is acceptable, so why do it myself?

There are other ways to go about discipline IMHO.
 
NWJocko said:
Really? Not sure how to copy in but below is what you posted.

"Deprives normal kids" "Majority suffer because of the minority" "Drain on the system"

They aren't facts (y)
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OK, I hold my hands up. Poor choice of phrase on my part. Rather than 'drain on the system' I should have said something like 'need additional resources'.
No offence intended and I apologise unreservedly 👍

On that note, I'm out on this thread.
 
Doon frae Troon said:
Seemingly Scotland in Union are so against the SNP's smacking ban that they are organising bus trips for parents to take their children to Berwick for a thoroughly good thrashing.;)
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I'm trying to think whether that is Pythonesque or Blackadder but it made me smile either way :). On a thread that at times has depressed me it brought a bit of levity to the proceedings (y)
 
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Doon frae Troon said:
Seemingly Scotland in Union are so against the SNP's smacking ban that they are organising bus trips for parents to take their children to Berwick for a thoroughly good thrashing.;)
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You need to look carefully at how the law is worded. If they have outlawed "smacking your children" then you simply have to take them round to your neighbour's house and let your neighbour smack them for you. Problem solved and the child gets disciplined. (y)
 
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I think it important that the Scottish Parliament has voted for this. There is way too much serious and not that serious drunkenness and drunken behaviour in Scotland - it's almost endemic. And when people are drunk their perception of right and wrong - reasonable and unreasonable behaviour - can go right out of the window. And too many children will be smacked or beaten by drunken parents or 'friends'. Anything that filters into a drunken and angry or frustrated brain that might cause an individual to pause - and then to not hit a child - or hit the child less - can only be the way forward. That 'good' and 'decent' parents might think that a reasonable parental smack might end up with them having a criminal record is just how it should be. The decent parent should also have reason to pause and think on their actions and possible consequences - both for themselves and in the longer term for the child.

That a parent is usually the closest adult to the child does not mean that the parent knows the way the child thinks - or what the child thinks on being hit or beaten. Many children do not forget trauma in early life - and I base that on personal experience of the last 10yrs or so when I have heard many, many stories from adults reflecting upon how what happened to them in their childhood led them into serious difficulty and problems in teens and adulthood.

Differentiating between a light admonishing smack and a hit is never going to be possible retrospectively. One rule for all is the only way to go.
 
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