Slow Play - Not worth a punch in the face?

[Deleted member 18588]

I think there's a difference between perception and reality.

It's true that a low handicap player may take longer to hit the ball. Spend longer thinking about club selection and on pre-shot routine. But the result is 50 yards further up the fairway than you, or a green in regulation instead of a bush or bunker. This means that overall they can play the hole quicker. I've never been stuck behind a group of slow scratch players.

If I take my time lining up a putt but then hole it, I'm going to be much quicker than your rushed three putt

But in that case why are Tour Pro's, the best players in the world, so painfully slow.

After all they take fewer strokes than any scratch player.?

 

[inc0gnito]

Maybe we should all wear helmets and everyone can start when they want and play through when they want and take as long as they want. No tee times. ?

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Chiefly because they're playing on 7500 yard courses with greens running at 12 on the stimp, medal play.

The great and good of the GM forum took 5 hours to get round a course under 6500 yards, greens about 10, in perfect summer weather in a Stableford.

Put 100 club members on a Tour course the same length and conditions, it'll be over 5 hours easy.

So it actually has little to do with the number of strokes played.

Tour pro's are taking nearly 5 hours for a round so if your theory is correct then club golfers should be taking well in excess of six hours.

I appreciate the length of courses played on the Tour and also that many of these were designed for buggies to be used.

I also realise that the pressure on them to perform is great and, thus, they will take time in preparing to play a shot.

My concern is when some club golfers, regardless of their handicap, start adopting the same practices.

 

[Deleted member 3432]

Chiefly because they're playing on 7500 yard courses with greens running at 12 on the stimp, medal play.

The great and good of the GM forum took 5 hours to get round a course under 6500 yards, greens about 10, in perfect summer weather in a Stableford.

Put 100 club members on a Tour course the same length and conditions, it'll be over 5 hours easy.

Sounds like the great and good of the GM forum would take about 7 hours on a Tour course, maybe 8 hours playing medal

 

[sunshine]

But in that case why are Tour Pro's, the best players in the world, so painfully slow.

After all they take fewer strokes than any scratch player.?

Because they are playing for a million bucks (more actually). Last Sunday, the difference between finishing -14 and -15 was $350,000.

I've seen tour players on the course outside of competitions and they don't hang around. If a tour player came to your course and played in your monthly medal he would be lightning quick.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Because they are playing for a million bucks (more actually). Last Sunday, the difference between finishing -14 and -15 was $350,000.

I've seen tour players on the course outside of competitions and they don't hang around. If a tour player came to your course and played in your monthly medal he would be lightning quick.

We have a couple of ex-Tour players as members and I certainly would not say that they are lightning quick.

Nor would I say they are particularly slow.

In any event see post #107.

 

[IanM]

As the event in Belgium showed, put an enforced time limit on it, and Tour Players will speed up! No one want to see players running the last 3 holes, but some of the protracted staring into space is way over the top!

 

[Deleted member 18588]

If you took any random bunch of 156 club golfers and put them on the same course and the same conditions, absolutely they'd be slower than the pros.

Again see post #107.

 

[patricks148]

Yes, that's what I quoted.
Not sure what the point of continuing to say "see post 107" is.

see post 110 and 113

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Yes, that's what I quoted.
Not sure what the point of continuing to say "see post 107" is.

Because I really don't have an issue with how quickly or slowly pro's play.

If, on TV, I find the pace of play too slow I can simply turn off my television.

My issue is with the "wannabes" amongst club golfers who mimic the Tour player's deliberate PSR, multiple calculations of distances, view putts from every angle possible and, regardless of score will still be "clocking on" come Monday morning.

 

[sunshine]

We have a couple of ex-Tour players as members and I certainly would not say that they are lightning quick.

Nor would I say they are particularly slow.

In any event see post #107.

They probably don't have green books for your course.

See post #109

 

[Deleted member 18588]

They probably don't have green books for your course.

See post #109

Ironically I believe one of them is involved in the production of those books.

 

[patricks148]

well there was two young guys yesterday on the Kings who were shockers. played with my mate Gordy, we were running a bit late but no one behind us. the Capt was on the practice green and mentioned the two in front of you were early so you won't hear the bell ( there is a bell 130 yards short of the green as the tee shot is blind) got down there they are still on the green so we waited, much stalking of lines finally finished, so we played putted out and walked to the next tee, these two were still there and only one had tee'd off. we must have stood on the tee for a good 10 mins while they buggered about one was in the water right the other on the fairway. both had fairly legnthly PSR and both took their gloves off after playing. we both hit and then stood and watched again as they both did what looked like aimpoint and took an age. after they both putted out at least 3 puts each, we played, putted out and when we got to the next tee niether had even tee's off. Gordy Knew one of them, and thought they were both off about 9 and could both hit a ball, He made a comment about slow play and they let us through.... begrudgingly. anyway off we went, Gordy and i are both in our 50's and were carrying,
when we got to the 12 tee, we could see these two just on the 8th, we played 12 and 13 and standing on the 14th tee they were just putting out on the 8th, with a single on the fairway waiting and anothe two groups on the 8th tee. when we got to the 15th tee there we a couple of guys who'd cut across and told the tale of who how the course was backed up behind the two young guys. We managed to get round in just on 3 hours but its a very short course, with no rough, i shudder to think when they finished behind us, or the poor guys behind them.

 

[Rlburnside]

I don't think I've ever seen someone "mimicking" a tour player just for the sake of it.
If you're a semi competent player you will have some sort of routine that's more or less the same every time, you will want know exactly how far you're trying to hit it, and anyone who doesn't have a look at the putt from more than one angle is wasting their time. Doesn't make you a slow player doing all that if you do it properly and are ready to go when it's your turn.

I would disagree slightly with your view of wasting your time if you only look once at the angle of your putt, if like me you’ve played your home course for more than 30 years you should only need one look at your putt.
Anything else is wasting time ?

 

[slowhand]

Rosecott has posted a link where there is more info on the court case itself. It mentions the Masonic lodge. Why that is a factor, why it was ever brought up is beyond me. But the Masonic lodge is wheels within wheels. The Masonic judge ? has given the Masonic ice cream ? seller a slap on the wrist for an extra flake ?
Rosecotts link was very informative which shows the ice cream seller to be a real tit.
what I found funny was in court his solicitor says he has really struggled through the Covid pandemic. Yup he is not the only one. His business selling lollies has struggled. So rather than smacking someone. Shouldn’t he be selling lollies, and if his business is shut coz of Covid, why is he
in a rush to finish the round quick.

Where in any of the reports does it state the judge was a mason? Just because the offender was, and the judge gave what seems a lenient sentence (it seems the provocation by the pensioner, which by no way excuses the man's actions, was taken into account), do not make your imaginings a reality. Also, if the judge was a mason, it would have been highly likely the defendant would have been know to him, in which case he would have recused himself.

Also, even if the Judge was a mason, and did not know the defendant, that that sort of behaviour (doing favours) is specifically prohibited in Freemasonry and a breach of that nature would probably result in expulsion, not just from the member's own lodge, but from Freemasonry itself. Given both the nature of the offence itself, compounded by the publicity it has now received, I would not be surprised if the offender himself was expelled.

 

[Boomy]

I would disagree slightly with your view of wasting your time if you only look once at the angle of your putt, if like me you’ve played your home course for more than 30 years you should only need one look at your putt.
Anything else is wasting time ?

Really though? ? You only look once and then roll them all in? I think not. I’m sure the reality is very different, unless you favour anything inside 6ft is a gimme.

 

[Rlburnside]

Really though? ? You only look once and then roll them all in? I think not. I’m sure the reality is very different, unless you favour anything inside 6ft is a gimme.

I have a good look from behind the ball if it’s not my turn to putt and don’t rush but still have a look if it’s my turn to putt.

As I say I’ve been playing my course long enough to know all the breaks on the greens and don’t fell the need to look from the side of from other side of pin. That’s what I meant from wasting time.

If I was playing any other course I would look more.

 

[Tashyboy]

Where in any of the reports does it state the judge was a mason? Just because the offender was, and the judge gave what seems a lenient sentence (it seems the provocation by the pensioner, which by no way excuses the man's actions, was taken into account), do not make your imaginings a reality. Also, if the judge was a mason, it would have been highly likely the defendant would have been know to him, in which case he would have recused himself.

Also, even if the Judge was a mason, and did not know the defendant, that that sort of behaviour (doing favours) is specifically prohibited in Freemasonry and a breach of that nature would probably result in expulsion, not just from the member's own lodge, but from Freemasonry itself. Given both the nature of the offence itself, compounded by the publicity it has now received, I would not be surprised if the offender himself was expelled.

It was said in jest, why? Why would being a Mason be an issue in the case. Why was it even brought up. What relevance does it have to the case. How was him being a Mason even brought to light. Like I say, there must be a clue that the judge getting an extra flake on his ice cream for a lenient sentence is a joke.
Having said that, in situations like this, people were many hats. The ice cream seller wears that hat, he has a golfing hat, a Masonic hat. Probably others that we don’t know about. The golfing and Masonic hats should be taken away. Why would they want to be associated with that behaviour.

 

[GB72]

The problem is that slow play has been demonised to such an extent that some take it as an affront to their manhood to even be accused of it. With that in mind, it has now become as situation where it is always somebody else fault and to let a group play through is seen by some as one of the worst things that they can be asked to do. I was constantly turned down by my old playing partners when I even used to suggest that the group behind should be allowed past.

Personally, and I have said this a few times on the forum, I think that playing through should be abolished. I find that the pressure that some people can apply to others on the course, reasonably or unreasonably, can make a round of golf very uncomfortable. I would far rather turn up and simply play at the pace that the course is playing that day. This could then allow the club to intervene as necessary. They will know exactly who is on the course and in what order and so gaps can be noted and action taken in relation to those groups slowing things up.

Sadly, in this day and age and with some people, an accusation of slow play was always likely to be taken as an insult and it is no surprise to me, unfortunately, that violence ensued.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

This is the problem.
People go out with that mentality and the whole course is screwed.
Way too slow.

Not really. For a two ball and players round 10 handicap and below- yes.
But you cannot determine the speed of play on the basis of an
"open" course.
Most courses now accept players of all standards. If a club takes the money from a 24 handicap player, then it can't expect a 3 hour round from him.
And if you are a member of such a club , then you are going to find many times being behind groups doing their best and not playing to your speed.

And if the club is busy, then there may be several such groups you come up behind.
But like coming up behind a slow line of cars on the road. Just got to be accepted most of the time if there's nowhere to go.
Many years ago, clubs limited paying players to 18 handicap( show certificate), mostly for this reason. But now things are different.