Slow Play - Not worth a punch in the face?

[patricks148]

Not really. For a two ball and players round 10 handicap and below- yes.
But you cannot determine the speed of play on the basis of an
"open" course.
Most courses now accept players of all standards. If a club takes the money from a 24 handicap player, then it can't expect a 3 hour round from him.
And if you are a member of such a club , then you are going to find many times being behind groups doing their best and not playing to your speed.

And if the club is busy, then there may be several such groups you come up behind.
But like coming up behind a slow line of cars on the road. Just got to be accepted most of the time if there's nowhere to go.
Many years ago, clubs limited paying players to 18 handicap( show certificate), mostly for this reason. But now things are different.

you are absolutely right, but if you are not keeping pace with the group in front and lose ground they should be letting people through, i thing thats all most people want.

 

[r0wly86]

In my experience slow play is rarely anything to do with ability, I have seen high handicappers whizz round and low handicappers take an age.

It is more a mindset, that's not to say quick players rush, just little things they do. Ready golf for one, playing your own shot before helping look for a ball, while waiting to take your shot starting to work out what club and shot is required rather than waiting until your turn to start. Leaving you bag in the best place to go tot he next hole/shot etc

Also in my experience those people who tool up golf as juniors are quicker, I think potentially it is because "etiquette" of which speed of play is a big part is such a big thing to be taught to juniors that it is ingrained at an early age what to do and not to do. Whereas those taking up the sport as adults are kind of just left alone to get on with it, which can breed bad habits.

The absolute worst thing which I cannot abide and have seen a fair bit, a 4 ball in 2 buggies, 4 drives in different parts of the fairway/rough. All four buggies go to the first ball, help look and wait for the shot, then to the second ball and rinse and repeat for all shots. This isn't an ability thing, this is a mindset.

Also despite what some people say, being quick doesn't mean you are not enjoying being outside or are rushing around, I find when I play, while I am walking with my PP to the next shot we are talking enjoying our time on the course, but when we get close to the ball I will start concentrating on the shot, by the time I get to the ball I have a rough estimate of what I need to do and get on with doing it, after I hit the ball back to chatting and enjoying

 

[sunshine]

This is a major issue I feel.

As a kid, I quickly learnt the rights and wrongs of slow play, replacing divots, repairing pitchmarks etc, it was all part of the learning process. There no such thing as pay and play so you had to be a club member, and being taught about the etiquette and care for the course was all part of it. It was accepted that people would get told if they weren't sticking to the "rules" of keeping up with play and looking after the course. People had a genuine caring outlook and pride in repairing their own damage.

Fast forward to now, people just don't get that drilled into them when they start. It's "how much gear can we sell them", "oooh we must be inclusive" and "there you go, the 1st tee is over there". As a result, the small but noticeable minority who choose to completely ignore the etiquette have absolutely nobody picking them up on it and they can just carry on doing what the heck they like. It's basically today's "do what I want" society outlook in general just being reflected on golf courses now.

It's all gone down hill since uneducated commoners were allowed to join clubs. Tradespeople should be restricted to playing twilight golf only as part of their artisan membership, the lack of daylight ensures they play quickly. Any stragglers can be whipped by the equerry to hurry them along.

 

[sunshine]

Lol.
I started playing in jeans ?.

It was the most working class golf club you could imagine, more of a drinking club with a golf course attached ?.

But that was not linked to golf course etiquette, 2 separate issues.

Well you should have been whipped just for wearing jeans.

In reality I'm a big fan of a more casual approach to golf. Saw this from Max Homa this morning:
max homa on Twitter: "Chica!!! #golf" / Twitter

 

[DanFST]

Golf has a snobbish imagine, and course etiquette is an issue.

The problem is those that comment on etiquette issues often talk in a condescending, self-righteous fashion. I have been playing for 20 years, I'm pretty good and I will always repair lots of pitch marks whilst waiting to putt. Never a hat inside etc.

However I'm 29 and covered in tattoos. The amount of people that have spoken to me poorly is frankly appalling. You can almost guarantee it will happen if I play anywhere apart from my home course. (I'm a member of a top 100 golf course, top 50 actually )

If I wasn't sure in my etiquette, or 100% certain I knew what I was doing, I probably wouldn't carry on playing.

 

[DanFST]

The only issue that I know of is people who don't take any notice of the pace of play and taking care of the course.
I don't know anyone who gives a hoot what someone looks like, it's purely down to how people act.

One man's idea of "snobbish" is just someone else's idea of just acting with respect for the game and everyone else's enjoyment surely?

That's good you don't know anyone, yours must be a fantastic club! I sadly see it at my place still, just not to me now most people know me and i'll be in the bar all afternoon!

Obviously my experience is different. If I get spoken to the way I do, imagine how someone learning the game and etiquette will? I will put money on it's not a friendly helpful teaching moment, more that someone will moan, get increasingly worked up and act like an ass.

 

[r0wly86]

I think there are 2 types of "etiquette" there is the on the course stuff like raking bunkers, repairing pitch marks, replacing divots and keeping up with play. Which I would imagine we would all agree is good for the game, keep s the course looking good and is just generally considerate to all other golfers.

Then there is things like having your shirt tucked in, types of sock and shorts (even if not proscribed by the club) and general appearance that is frowned upon by some golfers, and they will let you know about it. While I wouldn't consider it etiquette as such I think it gets tied in with everything else and can look snobbish.

I always remember as a 20 year old playing a local course with my friend, he was off 5, I was off 17 I think but could play well. On the fourth hole we caught up the 4 ball in front. One of them comes up to me and says "do you know who I am, I'm the seniors captain, and what you are wearing is totally unacceptable. You're wearing a rugby shirt (I wasn't it was a slightly heavier cotton polo), non tailored shorts, and your socks are too short." None of which was against the actual dress code, as I had checked with the pro before teeing off.

They then refused to let us through because they were playing a match, what they meant was it was match play knockout event, so just them playing. They didn't replace divots or rake bunkers properly

 

[davidy233]

Not really. For a two ball and players round 10 handicap and below- yes.
But you cannot determine the speed of play on the basis of an
"open" course.
Most courses now accept players of all standards. If a club takes the money from a 24 handicap player, then it can't expect a 3 hour round from him.
Many years ago, clubs limited paying players to 18 handicap( show certificate), mostly for this reason. But now things are different.

I was a 24 handicapper once - I wasn't taking 4.15-4.30 hours to go round a course - it's got nothing to do with ability - it's got everything to do with mindset, not faffing about and being ready to play your shot.

 

[toyboy54]

I think there are 2 types of "etiquette" there is the on the course stuff like raking bunkers, repairing pitch marks, replacing divots and keeping up with play. Which I would imagine we would all agree is good for the game, keep s the course looking good and is just generally considerate to all other golfers.

Then there is things like having your shirt tucked in, types of sock and shorts (even if not proscribed by the club) and general appearance that is frowned upon by some golfers, and they will let you know about it. While I wouldn't consider it etiquette as such I think it gets tied in with everything else and can look snobbish.

I always remember as a 20 year old playing a local course with my friend, he was off 5, I was off 17 I think but could play well. On the fourth hole we caught up the 4 ball in front. One of them comes up to me and says "do you know who I am, I'm the seniors captain, and what you are wearing is totally unacceptable. You're wearing a rugby shirt (I wasn't it was a slightly heavier cotton polo), non tailored shorts, and your socks are too short." None of which was against the actual dress code, as I had checked with the pro before teeing off.

They then refused to let us through because they were playing a match, what they meant was it was match play knockout event, so just them playing. They didn't replace divots or rake bunkers properly

Surely time for a course of re-education for this particular buffoon,something along the lines of cutting the leads to his trolley battery/emptying the golf ball pocket into deep rough/taking the tops off his drinks flask(if in the trolley bag)/filling his pipe pouch with some 'mary-jane'/photos of them having a pee in the rough on club site;twitter page...small things to start with and if the attitude doesn't change then step it up to PINK golf balls only in the bag/rip out his fingernails-all of them/if gentle retraining won't work(either too stupid-set in ways)then just shoot him or them!...Of course this terminal solution may bring some pressing legal problems--which hopefully you can avoid by pleading 'Slow Play'm'lud or join another with a younger,more enlightened membership!.......Let me know how you get on-would be good to swap which strategies work best?
Jimbo

 

[Swinglowandslow]

I was a 24 handicapper once - I wasn't taking 4.15-4.30 hours to go round a course - it's got nothing to do with ability - it's got everything to do with mindset, not faffing about and being ready to play your shot.

Depends what sort of 24 , and above, handicap you are.
There's the steady, hit it not very far type, and then there's the hit it all over the place type, enough to lose balls etc .
No good denying the latter don't exist on pay and play courses-, they do.
I am not criticising them, everyone has to learn etc and there is no suggestion that they are not trying their best. And they are entitled to play.
But I have seen it, where playing their best holds up better players.
Two or three chaps playing off 10 or so, will be much faster than two or three regularly going off piste, etc. Fact of life.
I play with a chap who hits it not far at all, driver on par threes etc, so short his handicap is higher than mine- but mostly he is quicker because he stays straight , hardly loses a ball, etc- whereas if I have a bad round I'm all over the place and conscious of the following group( who I let through?), but I am, at those times , a lot slower than he is.
Those things you list as causing hold ups are true reasons, of course they are, capable of being done by any player of any ability.
But they aren't the only reasons, which is what you imply ( it's got everything to do....)
Don't make the mistake of reinforcing a good point by denying other different points.
I know that a lot of clubs need paying , non club , players in order to keep running. It wouldn't be right to take their money and then deny their playing to their ability if it does hold up good players.
Their knowledge and experience of expeditious play will clearly not likely to be of the highest standard. That is a fact, not necessarily a condemnation.?

 

[patricks148]

I think also one of the main problems with people who are slow is they usually don't think they are. in the group i play in of about 30 ish guys at least 3 are slow, but swear blind they aren't. the worste is never ready to play, has all the lastest gadgets and uses all of them, yardage book, lazer and GPS, a lovely guy but a nightmare to play with, he refuses to accept he's slow

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I think also one of the main problems with people who are slow is they usually don't think they are. in the group i play in of about 30 ish guys at least 3 are slow, but swear blind they aren't. the worste is never ready to play, has all the lastest gadgets and uses all of them, yardage book, lazer and GPS, a lovely guy but a nightmare to play with, he refuses to accept he's slow

If one of our 'slowies' exhibits his usual behaviour - always last to leaving area of the tee after the rest have moved on - we do just that. We just move on. But no matter. We can be 50-75yds ahead of him before he gets going and he wanders along behind us - apparently oblivious or not caring of the fact. As it happens with 'ready-golf' this matters a lot less than it did. But still...we'll occasionally find ourselves hanging around waiting...but in truth it's less of an issue than it was - the real problem is when the group as a whole is slow

 

[patricks148]

If one of our 'slowies' exhibits his usual behaviour - always last to leaving area of the tee after the rest have moved on - we do just that. We just move on. But no matter. We can be 50-75yds ahead of him before he gets going and he wanders along behind us - apparently oblivious or not caring of the fact. As it happens with 'ready-golf' this matters a lot less than it did. But still...we'll occasionally find ourselves hanging around waiting...but in truth it's less of an issue than it was - the real problem is when the group as a whole is slow

it only takes one though.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

it only takes one though.

It does. But we just leave him behind. He eventually has to speed up else he finds himself playing by himself.

 

[IanM]

Some golfers are slow, some are inconsiderate of others and some are guilty of both.

These traits can be found in players from every handicap category, age group, gender, dress sense, experience level, income bracket, nationality, political persuasion etc etc etc etc

BUT, rest assured. It is always the group in-front and never us!

 

[3offTheTee]

It does. But we just leave him behind. He eventually has to speed up else he finds himself playing by himself.

Have you considered letting him have the honour every time and tell him the reason. I am usually the shortest by distance, not the slowestin our Group. Sometimes I suggest that it would be beneficial if I played first.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Have you considered letting him have the honour every time and tell him the reason. I am usually the shortest by distance, not the slowestin our Group. Sometimes I suggest that it would be beneficial if I played first.

We do sometimes try that...except it's often the case that we are by the next tee as he is sorting out getting his putter into his bag by the previous green Truth is - it's no big deal...because as groups we are pretty brisk and we are all mates together. And the other truth is that it's generally not the slowies that make me grimace when I am drawn to play with them. Fortunately we have only a very small handful of misery guts and jokers (I know what folks think when they are drawn with me as they tell me )

 

[Golfnut1957]

it only takes one though.

We have one, best player in the group, 4.6. He can at times also be the slowest when he goes full Kevin Na on us. On the tee swing after swing followed by full on pre shot routine. This has been mentioned and it is only occasional.

Similar to his occasional routine for approach shots, as he is the longest in the group he tends to go last. We play ready golf and so focused can he be over these shots that it is not at all unusual for him to be following the ball through the air only to watch it land beside the rest of us as we have had time to walk up the green. Oh the merriment as he reaches the green to find that we have all putted out and are stood waiting for him. Not a word needs to be said, his embarrassment says it all.

 

[patricks148]

We have one, best player in the group, 4.6. He can at times also be the slowest when he goes full Kevin Na on us. On the tee swing after swing followed by full on pre shot routine. This has been mentioned and it is only occasional.

Similar to his occasional routine for approach shots, as he is the longest in the group he tends to go last. We play ready golf and so focused can he be over these shots that it is not at all unusual for him to be following the ball through the air only to watch it land beside the rest of us as we have had time to walk up the green. Oh the merriment as he reaches the green to find that we have all putted out and are stood waiting for him. Not a word needs to be said, his embarrassment says it all.

one of our 3 is also one of the slowest, off +2 he is also the longest so again has to go last if he's hitting driver as there are a few greens he can reach from the daily tee's this group play off as we are all guys over 50. give him his due he has improved a lot over the last few years, due to lots of comments and jibes, he also has the advantage not playing as many shots as the rest

 

[Jamesbrown]

Yes slow players deserve a punch in the face, but only after ignoring being told they’re slow and after that a ball fired at them.

You can disagree and say that’s not the answer but from my experience steps one and two usually get the job done. Step three would solidify the message of steps one and two though yet to get that angry enough for step three.