Slope Function

[Arthur Wedge]

During a recent matchplay game it was seen that someone was using slope

The other person told his opponent after 6 holes that it was on

Seems he saw it on the first but waited until the 6th hole to tell him so got himself a nice lead

So is it time to allow club golfers to use slope ?!

 

[MACM85]

Personally I can't see it having a massive advantage to most handicap golfers. They might know it is playing X yards how often will they hit that number?

To a more elite player then the slope will have a massive advantage as they are generally skilled enough to hit that number, I would be on the fence if they should have use of slope.

 

[Golf is fun]

Personally I can't see it having a massive advantage to most handicap golfers. They might know it is playing X yards how often will they hit that number?

To a more elite player then the slope will have a massive advantage as they are generally skilled enough to hit that number, I would be on the fence if they should have use of slope.

Even then, what difference is it to an elite player whose caddy tells him it's X yards, but I measured with slope in the practice round and it plays Y yards.

 

[nickjdavis]

My initial gut instinct is to say no. What would come next...spirit level ball markers? Hand held anenometers?

But then....if the average golfers distance control (or lack of control perhaps more accurately) is say +5 yards/-10 yards ( more shots are left short than go long) then it's going to take a reasonable amount of "slope" to have a significant effect on club choice that would be greater than normal yardage variation. Such slopes may only occur a small handful of times over the course of a round.

So on reflection, I'd be inclined (get it?) to allow slope in the reasonably comfortable belief that it will make sod all difference to 99% of amateur golfers.

 

[ExRabbit]

Was a penalty applied?

 

[Imurg]

Having used the Slope function during my solo rounds I think there's no more than a 10 yard difference on any hole...
The fact that you can use it outside of competition is ridiculous really..use it in a practice round and you know the difference...
And if you're stood on a tee and it's quite a long way down to the green then you're automatically going to take less club and vice versa...
Our 10th plays 10 down, the 5th is 10 up. Most others are less than 5.
If lasers are allowed, to me, it makes little difference if slope is used...you're still only getting a yardage
You still have to hit it.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Was a penalty applied?

I believe it was a loss of hole for every hole it was used on

 

[sunshine]

So is it time to allow club golfers to use slope ?!

No. Because assessing wind, slope, atmospheric conditions require judgement.

The basic distance is something that is always freely available, via the scorecard, distance markers, course guide. So I'm ok with a laser or DMD.

The "plays like" measurement is an assumption, making calculations based on a hypothetical trajectory, so is not factual. The actual trajectory of your ball will impact the "plays like" distance.

We can draw a parallel with hawkeye in cricket. Assessing if the ball hit the pads in line with the wicket can be factually ascertained from ball tracking. But judging if the ball would have continued on to hit the stumps is an assumption based on a hypothetical trajectory.

 

[rulie]

I believe it was a loss of hole for every hole it was used on

I believe it was a loss of hole for every hole it was used on

When did the player become aware of the fact that the opponent's DMD had the slope function on? Best to read Rule 20.1b and Clarification 20.1b(2)/1. A player is not permitted to "store up" a known Rules breach he was aware of to increase the penalty.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

When did the player become aware of the fact that the opponent's DMD had the slope function on? Best to read Rule 20.1b and Clarification 20.1b(2)/1. A player is not permitted to "store up" a known Rules breach he was aware of to increase the penalty.

He said he saw him on the first use it and highlighted on the 6th hole

 

[Orikoru]

It's only telling what you already know really. Uphill - it adds yards - downhill - it takes off yards. Surely we can figure that out anyway? The number of yards is only an estimation but generally we're just going to go up or down one club so it doesn't really matter the exact number it gives. Yeah I'd say allow it, don't think it would make a difference to anyone's score.

 

[Steven Rules]

I believe it was a loss of hole for every hole it was used on

It should have been loss of hole for the first breach and disqualification for the second breach (see penalty statement for Rule 4.3).

As rulie has said, though, a player can't retrospectively claim wins for past holes if the facts were known at the time of the breach. A player can't overlook a breach and then 'change their mind' after either player tees off on the next hole. (Rule 20.1b(2))

 

[rulie]

He said he saw him on the first use it and highlighted on the 6th hole

Then, imo, he could only make a request for a ruling that would impact the 6th hole. That would be the first "breach".

 

[IanM]

Makes no difference to me, but a laser that gives the user an electric shock after 15 seconds would get my vote!

 

[backwoodsman]

Am I correct in thinking that the penalties involved in this (ie breach of rule 4.3) are General Penalty for the first breach (ie after the player became aware they were breaching the rule) and Disqualification for a subsequent breach?
(So, ignoring any rights & wrongs of the OP, the player would have lost just one hole, or would have been disqualified. ie no scope for building up a 'substantial lead'?)

Edit. Oops - just answered by posts 12 &13

 

[sunshine]

It should have been loss of hole for the first breach and disqualification for the second breach (see penalty statement for Rule 4.3).

As rulie has said, though, a player can't retrospectively claim wins for past holes if the facts were known at the time of the breach. A player can't overlook a breach and then 'change their mind' after either player tees off on the next hole. (Rule 20.1b(2))

What happens if the player only notices for the first time on the 6th that his opponent has slope switched on? And the opponent admits he's had it switched on for the whole round?

 

[rulie]

What happens if the player only notices for the first time on the 6th that his opponent has slope switched on? And the opponent admits he's had it switched on for the whole round?

Here's what Rule 20 says,
If the player requests a ruling about an earlier hole, a ruling will be given only if all three of these apply:

• The opponent breached Rule 3.2d(1) (giving wrong number of strokes taken) or Rule 3.2d(2) (failing to tell the player about a penalty),
• The request is based on facts the player was not aware of before either player made a stroke to begin the hole being played or, if between holes, the hole just completed, and
• After becoming aware of these facts, the player makes a request for a ruling in time (as set out above).

The Committee will have to make a decision.

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

I say allow it. The players still need to hit the distance in the conditions they’re playing, most club golfers are not going to be accurate enough to gain enough of an advantage from leaving it on.

If you play your home course what’s the difference it will have been used in numerous rounds so that you know the slope anyway. Caddies will walk a course and measure everything and every angle to the Nth degree. You’ve only got to listen during the events they’re mic’d up and you can hear the calculations and seeing how thick their yardage books are with green complexes drawn out etc. so what real advantage is the average or even good club golfers really gaining that isn’t already in play in the pro game. It’s just a bit quicker to pull the Range finder, zap the target and know it’s playing 140yds with an uphill slope of 10yds so you hit the club that goes 150!

It’s a lot better and faster than someone who has turned slope off , pulling it going oh it’s 140, and then taking an age to deliberate what to hit as they try to figure out what they need on top, the. Pulling the wrong club coming up short and repeating the process!

P.S the bloke who pulled the “Btw you’ve had it on for 6 holes so I’m claiming them all” is an absolute ! And should be suitably punished for trying to cheat the rules to his advantage but has instead cheated someone out of 6holes which he’s not entitled to! That’s a bigger crime than the poor bloke who left slope on and gained nothing!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

No. A slippery slope and one that starts to remove an aspect of player judgement that can vary according to experience and player shot trajectory. Use the slope function in your practice and social play if you will…but not in competitive play where not everyone has, or can have, one.

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

No. A slippery slope and one that starts to remove an aspect of player judgement that can vary according to experience and player shot trajectory.

Out of interest I’m genuinely intrigued to hear the answer not from just yourself but others to, but purely as you’ve posed the point!

How is it removing the players judgement according to experience and trajectory of shot, When A) they still have to execute a shot that goes the right distance, B) still have to choose what sort of shot and trajectory to play and C) it’s already at use in the Pro game where every single slope , distance and even green complex is measured and detail in their notes they’re allowed to use.

Judgement still required to do all those things with the data available. As I said not personal or seeking clarity just from yourself it’s a general question aimed at everyone including myself, you just happened to highlight it a succinct manner