Skycaddie subscription........

[GB72]

Also, if the product relies on an ongoing subscription, I would expect the actual GPS unit to be sold dead cheap as a loss leader whilst the profit is made on the subscription cost. Much in the same way that Sky basically give away the boxes based on making money on the monthly subscription costs. Cannot see spending several hundred pounds on a unit followed by further payments every year as being a good deal. Now, sell me the unit for £50.00 and charge me annually and I would be interested.

 

[Earl]

Interesting that skycaddie are frowned upon for making a profit (as happens in all new technology the first in always pay the most). Yet when we discuss golf balls Titleist don't get slagged off for selling very expensive golf balls but instead are praised, oh the wonders of advertising or is it the snob factor ?

 

[SammmeBee]

Also, if the product relies on an ongoing subscription, I would expect the actual GPS unit to be sold dead cheap as a loss leader whilst the profit is made on the subscription cost. Much in the same way that Sky basically give away the boxes based on making money on the monthly subscription costs. Cannot see spending several hundred pounds on a unit followed by further payments every year as being a good deal. Now, sell me the unit for £50.00 and charge me annually and I would be interested.

Why would they want to sell you something at less than is costs them to make.....?

 

[Vincent]

I must admist it was something I had picked up upon, but thought that I'd win my subscription costs from my mates over the year.

 

[GB72]

Also, if the product relies on an ongoing subscription, I would expect the actual GPS unit to be sold dead cheap as a loss leader whilst the profit is made on the subscription cost. Much in the same way that Sky basically give away the boxes based on making money on the monthly subscription costs. Cannot see spending several hundred pounds on a unit followed by further payments every year as being a good deal. Now, sell me the unit for £50.00 and charge me annually and I would be interested.

Why would they want to sell you something at less than is costs them to make.....?

Many companies do, Gillette sell razors at a loss and make money on the replacement blades, games consoles are sold at a loss and the profit is made on games sales, Sky basically give away the set top box and make money on subscriptions, mobile phones are given away to make money on calls, supermarkets sell essential items at a loss to get you in store. There are many examples and alot of companies that have an ongoing subscription element sell the product at a discount or even a loss to widen the user base on the understanding that they will make money through a long term subscription.

 

[haplesshacker]

Talking of Titleist ball value, GPS prices etc.

A products actual value, is immaterial. It's its perceived value that matters. Something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it; regardless of cost to manufacture it.

Take Pro V's. Probably don't cost much to make when compared to a 'cheaper' ball. But we perceive it as a quality product. Just read the BMW thread to understand that!

Skycaddie are 'getting away with it' as some might say, because there are folks out there that perceive it as the best product available, even without knowing about having to keep up the annual subs!

 

[SammmeBee]

Also, if the product relies on an ongoing subscription, I would expect the actual GPS unit to be sold dead cheap as a loss leader whilst the profit is made on the subscription cost. Much in the same way that Sky basically give away the boxes based on making money on the monthly subscription costs. Cannot see spending several hundred pounds on a unit followed by further payments every year as being a good deal. Now, sell me the unit for £50.00 and charge me annually and I would be interested.

Why would they want to sell you something at less than is costs them to make.....?

Many companies do, Gillette sell razors at a loss and make money on the replacement blades, games consoles are sold at a loss and the profit is made on games sales, Sky basically give away the set top box and make money on subscriptions, mobile phones are given away to make money on calls, supermarkets sell essential items at a loss to get you in store. There are many examples and alot of companies that have an ongoing subscription element sell the product at a discount or even a loss to widen the user base on the understanding that they will make money through a long term subscription.

And the number of Skycaddies sold annually compared against the sales of phones/Sky/Heinz Baked Bean is......

 

[GB72]

True, there are economies of scale involved but my general opinion is that a if a company wants an ongoing financial commitment to make use of a service then there should be a discount on the medium that uses it, otherwise the cost of skycaddie increases dramatically irrespective of use. How many people have bought them to help on a few local courses and are now paying again every year for no obvious benefit.

 

[Herbie]

Looking at all these responses there are a lot of questions about SC even from those who happily use the item.

As for the cost, once this product has gripped the market the manufacturing costs can often fall dramatically with quantity purchase power, so in the long term as the product interest grows so the production costs fall. The greater costs are in the initial stages creating a manufacture process which can require process creation, even making new machinery to make certain components, but after that its all down hill and SC should be way beyond that stage now.

My view is that for the cost of one of these things I think they should give at least 5 yrs full service before annual subscriptions come in. This will give every purchaser a chance to get round all the courses or at least some before stingy SC take anything away.

 

[backwoodsman]

hmmm... I think I have to stand up to defend the subscription. When I bought the thing I knew there was the subscription and knew that if the subscription ran out, then that was that - you could only use your own mapped courses.

I got the Eagle subscription - which means for £35 a year, I can use it on any mapped course in the Uk, europe, and africa. I'd hope to be using it on about 15 new courses a year (plus old ones too) - so its about £2 per new course. Reasonable value to me - nope, I don't think Skycaddie are ripping us off.

 

[GB72]

Part of my issue is that I have given skycaddie some serious consideration, talked to staff in golf shops, read reviews and not one has said that the courses cannot be used at the end of the subscription. I have made it clear that I really only would use it for 2 or 3 local courses and still no comment. It should be made clearer both in adverts and in reviews that the item is next to useless unless you pay out each year.

 

[Imurg]

I've been reading all the blurb on the website regarding this and I have to say that if the info is there I couldn't find it. If its there it certainly isn't obvious to the point that you would have to stumble across it to have any knowledge of it.

This I feel is wrong. Although I'm reasonably happy to pay my £30 a year, there should be large lettered words spelling it out. Just say that I stopped playing for 20 months due to an injury. In 20 months time I would need to pay £60 to get back on board.

If Skycaddie are reading this (which they probably arn't!)- make it obvious!!!!

 

[Herbie]

Look at it this way then...What is the cost of one of those fancy things many have in their cars that not only gives an entire mapping service but actually talks to you and some can even double up as a TV? No subscription there to my knowledge, similar technology levels in use, if not better tech.

How much do you pay for SC that not only limits use generally but automatically limits further should you forget to subscribe £30+ each year when subscription according to many was at least vague. If subscription charges can be shown to have been obscured from purchase info yet promotion suggests all course programs available doesnt this come close to misrepresentation? I dont know, I wonder if someone does?

 

[haplesshacker]

Generally then I get the impression that as far as the forum is concerned it's Caddyaid 0 points, and now the darling of the forum is nil points! Where does that leave us? Another member having to fork out a couple / few hundred quid to do a years test of a product and it's subs package.

As an example, what if GM produced a mag for the January edition, said that for £35 a year instead of the shelf price of £60 a year you can subscribe to it. Produce the same mag for the next 12 months, and then come next January, want another £35 to keep receiving the same mag or if you don't, they'll all be taken away from you!!

Sorry, half a bottle of Scotch logic!!

How many of us play so many different courses to make it worthwhile. As a club member, I want full use of my subs at the club, and not effectively be paying double to play elsewhere.

 

[USER1999]

I play about 10 new courses a year at the moment, so to me it is worth it. My only worry is that they do not tell you when your subscription needs renewing. If they do this, I am fine with it.

Yes, my car sat nav has no subscription, but if I want to update to the latest maps, boy does it cost. What is the difference?

 

[SammmeBee]

If you only want to play a couple of courses and not shell out then map them yourself and there you go....

It is clear about the subscription fee in the FAQ's....

With the Sat Nav I think you have to go back to that numbers involved and also that I believe the technology to be more accurate (therefore more expensive) in a Skycaddie...like murph said have you ever tried to buy an upgrade DVD for a Sat Nav that come 'free' with the car....

 

[GB72]

I have 2 isues with the comparison to car sat navs:

1. The upgrade is voluntary and they do not take away the older version of the maps at the end of the year.

2. Roads are constantly changing, how often does your course change and, more to the point, how often are the course maps updated by Skycaddie?

 

[USER1999]

No they don't take away the roads, they just take you by a very indirect route, ignoring new roads. Surely for the £350 my Garmin cost, they should update the maps annually? They don't. I quite like the little car image driving through a field as I go up the M20, makes me smile.

As for SkyCaddie, if your course changes, ask to get it remapped. They are pretty prompt at doing this, it is part of the service. No they don't do it automatically, you have to ask for it, but that is fair, or they would have to monitor all courses for changes.

 

[Herbie]

Generally then I get the impression that as far as the forum is concerned it's Caddyaid 0 points, and now the darling of the forum is nil points! Where does that leave us? Another member having to fork out a couple / few hundred quid to do a years test of a product and it's subs package.

As an example, what if GM produced a mag for the January edition, said that for £35 a year instead of the shelf price of £60 a year you can subscribe to it. Produce the same mag for the next 12 months, and then come next January, want another £35 to keep receiving the same mag or if you don't, they'll all be taken away from you!!

Sorry, half a bottle of Scotch logic!!

How many of us play so many different courses to make it worthwhile. As a club member, I want full use of my subs at the club, and not effectively be paying double to play elsewhere.

Good points Hapless, but where GM mag is concerned I know the full price before taking any offer, I can also stop payment if I feel its not worth the extra after the offer deal, but even so, there is a huge difference between GM mag costs and cost of something like SC.

With SC it seems a lot of people were not aware of the penalties should subscription fail to be paid and this is wrong.
Also you pay a lot of money for something that in reality only offers a very limited use unless you pay £30+ per annum. I would wager that most people with this kit will not have the time available to visit the clubs within the program frequently enough to justify the cost, or looking at it another way, SC could have created a pay and play system where you have an account and when you play a course its registered and you then have to pay a small fee, that way it wouldnt matter if you play 10 of the courses or 1.per year. The technology is not beyond SC.
This would make the tool more worthwhile from a cost point of view and probably of more interest.

 

[toonarmy]

I can't believe that people are trying to defend what is blatant extortion. I have been yearning for a GPS for a while now but the one big thing putting me off was paying quite a bit more for a golf gps than I had to for my car's satnav. Now never mind the 'extra' data a golf gps gives, a car satnav has to give you the info while you're moving at 70mph!

I have been very close to getting a gps but now feel that I might as well wait until they actually sort this shambles out. Yes, I have no objection to the subscription system but don't then charge me twice as much for the golf gps as I pay for my car's satnav. Charge me £50 for the device and then charge me for the bit that actually costs you i.e. the course mapping and upkeep.

Taking courses off people for failure to pay is pretty low in my opinion. Oh well, that's a chunk of money saved in the short term!