USER1999
Grand Slam Winner
I did put 'in match play', not stroke play. There is a world of difference.
Should any man be given more than one shot per hole?
- Thread starter Doc
- Start date
Me too, I couldn't care less what someones h/cap is, it's only MY h/cap that's important and playing to it would suffice
Like JustOne I couldn't give a monkey's about someone else's high or low handicap. And like JustOne I'm another low handicapper that doesn't have a problem with high handicappers. Bit of inverted snobbery Doc?
And a great post by MadAdey, #77, and already knowing this, this is the reason why I don't care what the next guy plays off. If someone needs more than a shot a hole to be competitive, fine by me. My score will determine my chance of winning. So if I get that right and someone else beats me, well played to them.
JustOne
Ryder Cup Winner
I don't mind playing someone off 28 and losing, and likewise the last thing I want to do is play Smiffy off 10 when I know he's not that good, it would be a shallow victory. If someone is legitimately a 28 h/capper then so be it, I'd happy give my dad 70 shots just to make a game of it, I doubt he could break 150.
which brings me to the next point....
The issue more than anything is that the higher h/cappers (often) don't put in enough cards and also I don't believe in the whole CSS thing (especially not for the higher h/caps). If they shoot a better score than their h/cap then they should be cut.
Doc
Head Pro
Not at all, just attempting to stimulate a good debate.
I'd love to be able to regularly play to my handicap, it has happened once this year
Rounds with NR are Stableford comps.
As I said before, if it was gross only I would still compete but it isn't fun coming last despite my best efforts.
I would imagine the Kudos of being a Cat One golfer would be reward in itself for hard work and dedication, I know I'll never get there.
In my opinion the game of golf needs high handicappers and mass appeal to keep it alive.
Cheers
Steve...
BoadieBroadus
Q-School Graduate
i have no problem with very high handicaps as long as they are accurate... would i be happy about finding i'd been drawn in the medal with two 30+ handicappers?
not so much...
not so much...
Philm
Challenge Tour Pro
i think, that handicaps are useful. they allow folk who are useless/or very old to have a bit of craic on a saturday morning.
ive no problem with them.
but i work on strokes and always have, if someone has less strokes than me they win simple as. i play with a couple of mates and some are lower than me some slightly higher and we always play level matches. its great crack. and yes the low guys usually win but they deserve to and none of us mind, we just hope to be able to beat them with another years practice!
but we dont play for money. and therein lies the idea of handicaps, lets all put a couple of pound in the pot and use a HC system to see who played best against their current level on the day. now ive no problem with that and i enjoy our sat comps at my club.
but the same couple of guys battle it out every week for the win (the real win - lowest gross) id like to have my name against that someday.
if i was 50+ and as sporty as a ford fiesta id probably just be happy to play the game for the fun of the odd good shot. not winning a comp would never put me off playing golf. after all most of my golf is social stroke play with friends/work collegues.
lowest gross - the real winner.
i think clubs should always put up a score sheet in order of gross score just to see how we are really doing!
Phil
ive no problem with them.
but i work on strokes and always have, if someone has less strokes than me they win simple as. i play with a couple of mates and some are lower than me some slightly higher and we always play level matches. its great crack. and yes the low guys usually win but they deserve to and none of us mind, we just hope to be able to beat them with another years practice!
but we dont play for money. and therein lies the idea of handicaps, lets all put a couple of pound in the pot and use a HC system to see who played best against their current level on the day. now ive no problem with that and i enjoy our sat comps at my club.
but the same couple of guys battle it out every week for the win (the real win - lowest gross) id like to have my name against that someday.
if i was 50+ and as sporty as a ford fiesta id probably just be happy to play the game for the fun of the odd good shot. not winning a comp would never put me off playing golf. after all most of my golf is social stroke play with friends/work collegues.
lowest gross - the real winner.
i think clubs should always put up a score sheet in order of gross score just to see how we are really doing!
Phil
bladeplayer
Money List Winner
Doc as i said earlier i only care about my own h'cap mate , & i believe if im playing you in matchplay we play full handicaps .. 2 questions id like your thoughts on tho
(1) the thing i said earlier of Max starting handicap of 18 reviewed up or down every 6 qualifying comps ? depending on scores (this is in 1st year of membership)
(2) say you & i join together , we are the same ability joining , both get 18 hcap.. you go get lessons & practice twice a week & purchase new clubs to help you improve & get down your handicap to say 9 ,
me on the other hand i dont bother , i play once a week , dont bother with all the stuff you did & my handicap goes up to 20.. we draw each other in the club comp & you have to give me 11 shots .. do i realy deserve to get those 11 shots from you ? if i tried to improve or put in a bit of practice ok then i might do but in the scenario above , why should i ? as murph asked do i deserve a level playing field as you did the work & i didnt bother ? just curious
(1) the thing i said earlier of Max starting handicap of 18 reviewed up or down every 6 qualifying comps ? depending on scores (this is in 1st year of membership)
(2) say you & i join together , we are the same ability joining , both get 18 hcap.. you go get lessons & practice twice a week & purchase new clubs to help you improve & get down your handicap to say 9 ,
me on the other hand i dont bother , i play once a week , dont bother with all the stuff you did & my handicap goes up to 20.. we draw each other in the club comp & you have to give me 11 shots .. do i realy deserve to get those 11 shots from you ? if i tried to improve or put in a bit of practice ok then i might do but in the scenario above , why should i ? as murph asked do i deserve a level playing field as you did the work & i didnt bother ? just curious
Doc
Head Pro
(1) the thing i said earlier of Max starting handicap of 18 reviewed up or down every 6 qualifying comps ? depending on scores (this is in 1st year of membership)
Fair enough, no real argument against this BUT in your scenario I would have had my handicap reviewed 4 times this year against the 20+ times it's been examined in competition.
(2)do i deserve a level playing field as you did the work & i didnt bother ?
A very difficult scenario, my gut feeling is to say no you don't, but if you have a valid hcp then surely its a fair indication of your present skill level?
Could this not be covered for with inactive handicaps?
Maybe it should be a minimum of a qualifying comp a month to keep a handicap active?
Cheers
Steve...
Fair enough, no real argument against this BUT in your scenario I would have had my handicap reviewed 4 times this year against the 20+ times it's been examined in competition.
(2)do i deserve a level playing field as you did the work & i didnt bother ?
A very difficult scenario, my gut feeling is to say no you don't, but if you have a valid hcp then surely its a fair indication of your present skill level?
Could this not be covered for with inactive handicaps?
Maybe it should be a minimum of a qualifying comp a month to keep a handicap active?
Cheers
Steve...
Oi!!
What's with the very old, 50+......? This 50 something, two heart attacks, fat cripple still knocks it around in the mid 70's most weeks.... Bloody whippersnappers... mutter, mutter.... youngsters of today.... in my day...
What would you do about guys like Tiger, who have worked their backside off and are still sh*te
Doc
Head Pro
What would you do about guys like Tiger & Doc who have worked their backside off and are still sh*te
Fixed it for you
bladeplayer
Money List Winner
Doc;464877 Fair enough said:
Doc
Head Pro
Ok, I see, a general play review every six comps and maybe also reports from playing partners and the odd round with a committee member - not against that at all - it would be a good thing and should take care of banditry.
Cheers
Steve...
Cheers
Steve...
bladeplayer
Money List Winner
Give them directions to the snooker club ?? just kidding as i said in the first year have 3 or 4 reviews suplimentary to the .1s you get back .. as per reply to Doc below.. hope it makes scenceWhat would you do about guys like Tiger, who have worked their backside off and are still sh*te
Philm
Challenge Tour Pro
apologies for the 50 comment. BUT
if you knock it round in mid 70s then your a better golfer than me atm, so if i went out to play you, and we both play ok, you win
id shake your hand and say thanks for the game. forget handicaps, you are better than me, someday id like to be as good as you, or better ( dreamy ) but until then and even then gross is the only way we could truely compare ourselves.
and as for the youngsters of today they are being ruined by being told that handicaps and stableford points is what golf is all about. im 24 and id never heard or understood stableford until i joined a club a year ago and im glad i had that grounding in stroke play, in always putting out, always puting down a score and counting them up at the end, none of this blob nonsense.
how can we expect to get any better if we think that 40+points off 20hc is better than 36 points of 5/6/7/8/9 or whatever. its just not.
Phil
S
Snelly
Guest
Whenever the subject of stroke indexing and handicap limits get discussed, my eyes glaze over and I become catatonic. So dull.
To go back to the question posted by the OP, my view is that 20 should be the maximum handicap for men. Just because.
At many of our courses in the UK, 20 is the stipulated maximum handicap that men can play off and if places like Sunningdale think that this is right, then I am happy to jump on that bandwagon.
I think that 20 seems about right. Bogeying every hole with two spare shots. Not exactly tough is it? How much more help do you need? I think it would encourage those on higher handicaps to improve personally. I always shudder when marking a 28 handicappers card when I hear those words, "7 for 1!"
And yes I know, easy for me to say etc...
Cheers,
Snelly.
To go back to the question posted by the OP, my view is that 20 should be the maximum handicap for men. Just because.
At many of our courses in the UK, 20 is the stipulated maximum handicap that men can play off and if places like Sunningdale think that this is right, then I am happy to jump on that bandwagon.
I think that 20 seems about right. Bogeying every hole with two spare shots. Not exactly tough is it? How much more help do you need? I think it would encourage those on higher handicaps to improve personally. I always shudder when marking a 28 handicappers card when I hear those words, "7 for 1!"
And yes I know, easy for me to say etc...
Cheers,
Snelly.
JustOne
Ryder Cup Winner
Of course you do, no-one told your mate he had to practice, it was his own choice for his own personal satisfaction/pride/ambition/challenge/...call it whatever you will. How ironic it would be if he then turned to you and moaned that he had to give you shots.
Scouser
Tour Winner
I agree with philm I have only ever played agains two golfers with a ha dicap and they would wipe the floor with me in a comp...... If I had a handicap and beat them they are still better golfers its as simple as that. I don't think I would get a lot of pleasure beating them because of my handicap.
Evesdad
Tour Winner
Surely the problem is not the handicap system but people abusing it?
If people have the shots fine by me but surely it's those people who manage their handicap their hcps that cause Tw issues. There will always be the odd round where it all clicks for us higher hcps but they are usually mixed in with average and complete nightmare rounds!
If people have the shots fine by me but surely it's those people who manage their handicap their hcps that cause Tw issues. There will always be the odd round where it all clicks for us higher hcps but they are usually mixed in with average and complete nightmare rounds!
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Bucky
Club Champion
Phil, I agree with that 100%. Im 28 and have played on and off since I was 8. I have always played my golf socially against friends and we play strokeplay, the best score wins. If my mate says "i'll give you 10 shots" and I win, thats a pretty hollow victory for me. I want to win because on that given day, I went round in less shots than him.
I only learnt how the stableford points system worked on the 1st October this year when I played in my first ever society game. I would never use them out of choice. I dont like the idea that once a hole starts going wrong, i pick up and move on. If im playing a par 4 and i'm hitting my 8th shot, then I'm under pressure and I need to sort myself out quickly because this score is going to affect my round.
I feel that by going round in 92, and putting that down as my score, i am far more honest with myself and motivated to improve than say having a 20 hc and telling myself i went round level par.
I only learnt how the stableford points system worked on the 1st October this year when I played in my first ever society game. I would never use them out of choice. I dont like the idea that once a hole starts going wrong, i pick up and move on. If im playing a par 4 and i'm hitting my 8th shot, then I'm under pressure and I need to sort myself out quickly because this score is going to affect my round.
I feel that by going round in 92, and putting that down as my score, i am far more honest with myself and motivated to improve than say having a 20 hc and telling myself i went round level par.
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