Scouser
Tour Winner
He is not wrong he is saying yes it should be this way but IS NOT always this way
Should any man be given more than one shot per hole?
- Thread starter Doc
- Start date
He is not wrong he is saying yes it should be this way but IS NOT always this way
rosecott
Money List Winner
Anyway Ash, my best mate is a scouser so no hard feelings. Come for a game, I'm off 16, he's off 28 so he may have to have more than 1 shot a hole - you can hack it.
ash01
Assistant Pro
Cheers scouser.
I was just going to type pretty much exactly what you have said.
Ash!!
Scouser
Tour Winner
??????
rosecott
Money List Winner
Sorry Ash, I confused you with scouser - hope you're not offended.
ash01
Assistant Pro
rosecott
Money List Winner
But you're both welcome to come for a game.
Scouser
Tour Winner
Cheers
Doc
Head Pro
So the conclusion is some say yes, some say no.
From my reading of the posts it seems the majority of "no's" come from low handicap golfers but they fail massively to provide any substantive argument or justification for their opinion.
The yes votes seem to promote the inclusion of less skilled folk for the enjoyment and benefit of golf.
Rather a weak debate from the naysayers so far.
Cheers
Steve...
From my reading of the posts it seems the majority of "no's" come from low handicap golfers but they fail massively to provide any substantive argument or justification for their opinion.
The yes votes seem to promote the inclusion of less skilled folk for the enjoyment and benefit of golf.
Rather a weak debate from the naysayers so far.
Cheers
Steve...
HawkeyeMS
Ryder Cup Winner
It's always going to be like that because the h'cap system is there to allow lesser players to compete with better players on an "even" playing field. Especially in stableford comps. By design it tries to allow higher handicaps who are inconsistent hole to hole to make up for blobs with 4point pars. The system isn't in place for better players so those are the people who will not like it, it's just the way it is.
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iku
Head Pro
I was given my first hc (22) last March and it has been coming down since then, now I'm around 16 but I had one entire month off in the summer and I was playing almost every day, most of the time following a friend who is on the amateur tour, looking at his shot and getting advice on every shot, on course management, etc. I used to shoot low 80s and I had an incredible 75 (+4) gross that I probably won't see again for a long long time now that I play once a week max.
From July to August I won 4 competitions. At my club there is a 178 yds par 3 SI4 where I got 5 points twice.
Do I feel like that was fair? No.
Personally I think that for new members or new players the hc should not be based on 3 cards only. They should talk to the people who played with you, sit down with you and "agree" your hc.
I come from other sports and really don't see the point of the hc at all as I would never say I have beaten someone if he has shot less shots than me. Why don't they have similar allowances in other sports then? Maybe if I was to start every game o 40-0 for me against Roger Federer I could have a shot at Wimbledon...
From July to August I won 4 competitions. At my club there is a 178 yds par 3 SI4 where I got 5 points twice.
Do I feel like that was fair? No.
Personally I think that for new members or new players the hc should not be based on 3 cards only. They should talk to the people who played with you, sit down with you and "agree" your hc.
I come from other sports and really don't see the point of the hc at all as I would never say I have beaten someone if he has shot less shots than me. Why don't they have similar allowances in other sports then? Maybe if I was to start every game o 40-0 for me against Roger Federer I could have a shot at Wimbledon...
HawkeyeMS
Ryder Cup Winner
Agree with hcaps or not, if we didn't have them, club comps would have no competitors cause people won't play if they don't have a chance of winning.
upsidedown
Tour Winner
I'm a Yes , let them have up to 36 handicaps
JustOne
Ryder Cup Winner
Me too, I couldn't care less what someones h/cap is, it's only MY h/cap that's important and playing to it would suffice
USER1999
Grand Slam Winner
Thing is, what is the incentive to reduce your handicap?
It only makes the game harder.
It only makes the game harder.
JustOne
Ryder Cup Winner
hehehehe
MadAdey
Money List Winner
Just to add something on the stroke indexing first. People think that it is all about the difficulty of the hole. Well that does have some bearing. But a golf course has to take certain criteria into account they can't just make it up. You can't have index 1-8 on the first or last hole. The odds on one nine and evens on the other. Index 1 & 2 should be in the middle of the nine not at the start or the end in case the tenth tee is used in competitions. Lots of things that need to be taken into account when carrying out stroke indexing on a course.
At my own course I do not find index 1 & 2 that hard, but that is because I can get my tee shot past the dog leg on index 1 leaving a mid/short iron in, but a lot of high handicappers and shorter hitters have no chance of getting on in 2 very often. Stroke index 2 is a par 5 but again able to get the tee shot into the correct position to make it an easy hole compared to higher handicappers and shorter hitters.
People should get their full handicap as if they are off 28 then give them the bloody shots. Take a look at this chart from the CONGU website.
· Numerous researchers and golfing bodies including the United States Golf Association,
English Golf Union and Scottish Golf Union have investigated the relative merits of full
versus three-quarters difference in handicap.
· All of these independent pieces of research have come to a single conclusion – full
difference between the handicaps of the two players is clearly the more equitable allowance.
· A Scottish Golf Union survey covering 4000 handicap singles matches showed:
From the above it can be seen that even when conceding full difference the lower handicap
player retains an advantage.
So forget everyone's opinions the facts that they found from their research showed the above. I am not a high handicapper trying to justify dozens of shots but stating the facts of why they changed it to full shot allowance. What 3/4 difference does though is stops that bloody bandit beating you 4 & 3.
At my own course I do not find index 1 & 2 that hard, but that is because I can get my tee shot past the dog leg on index 1 leaving a mid/short iron in, but a lot of high handicappers and shorter hitters have no chance of getting on in 2 very often. Stroke index 2 is a par 5 but again able to get the tee shot into the correct position to make it an easy hole compared to higher handicappers and shorter hitters.
People should get their full handicap as if they are off 28 then give them the bloody shots. Take a look at this chart from the CONGU website.
· Numerous researchers and golfing bodies including the United States Golf Association,
English Golf Union and Scottish Golf Union have investigated the relative merits of full
versus three-quarters difference in handicap.
· All of these independent pieces of research have come to a single conclusion – full
difference between the handicaps of the two players is clearly the more equitable allowance.
· A Scottish Golf Union survey covering 4000 handicap singles matches showed:
¾ Difference | Full Difference | |
| Matches won by lower handicap | 61% | 55% |
| Matches won by higher handicap | 39% | 45% |
From the above it can be seen that even when conceding full difference the lower handicap
player retains an advantage.
So forget everyone's opinions the facts that they found from their research showed the above. I am not a high handicapper trying to justify dozens of shots but stating the facts of why they changed it to full shot allowance. What 3/4 difference does though is stops that bloody bandit beating you 4 & 3.
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Though not a really low handicapper myself, but single fig none the less and it can be disheartening.
at the start of the season i was off 8 my fist matchplay knockout against a 28 handicapper. So giving away 20 shots.
I tee'd off first good drive down the middle, matey sticks his 40 yards past me with his drive, my heart sank
at the start of the season i was off 8 my fist matchplay knockout against a 28 handicapper. So giving away 20 shots.
I tee'd off first good drive down the middle, matey sticks his 40 yards past me with his drive, my heart sank
USER1999
Grand Slam Winner
But why should it be a level field? Surely the guy who has worked hard to be better at the game should have some advantage, or there is no point in working hard and getting cut?
Yes, the higher h/cap should have a chance, but it should never be a straight 50/50, or there is no point being lower. It rewards people for being incompetent.
I was, and remain, in favour of 3/4 difference in match play. Changing it to full allowance was a mistake.
Yes, the higher h/cap should have a chance, but it should never be a straight 50/50, or there is no point being lower. It rewards people for being incompetent.
I was, and remain, in favour of 3/4 difference in match play. Changing it to full allowance was a mistake.
Doc
Head Pro
I work hard at my game, spend hours practising but I'm still rubbish.
I definitely don't protect my handicap and donate nearly every week to the red hat pot.
Playing in our winter league betterball I get 16 shots (3/4) and find it very hard to compete.
If I had to play to 16 every game so be it but it's no fun coming last every week.
That is the crux of the matter for me and probably an awful lot of other less skilled golfers.
Cheers
Steve...
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