Shorter courses for seniors?

[Foxholer]

I trust all this talk about Stroke Index is about that rarely used 'Stableford Stroke Index'!

Almost all Clubs I know ONLY use Matchplay Stroke Index, which is normally not the true reflection of hole difficulty!

As for Del's question in the OP.... Yes, it would make sense to use a shorter course for such folk. It still wouldn't stop those that are declining in ability from creeping up rather than stepping up, but that's an issue for Congu and 'Senior' handicaps generally! I'mn certain they have had plenty of correspondence on the subject!

It would, of course, be 'solved' by changing to the US system, but that's some way off and it's likely quite a few Seniors will actually not get to see that implemented!

And the practicality of shorter tees is actually limited too. A club I visited not long go were saying their 'Blue' tees would make Seniors a lot happier - and made the course about 300 yrds shorter than the Yellows. While that sounds quite a lot, the actual effect is actually marginl - less than 20 yrds per hole. If someone is really declining in ability (and I'm one of those!), that really isn't going to make a great difference - except for maybe the occasional Par 3 imo!

To me, Seniors playing off 16 and upward shouldn't even be contemplating getting to most Par 4s in regulation! Their biggest concern should be whether they can carry to the fairway and/or past particular hazards that may cross it! Good scores for Seniors are all about getting close and 1-putting, NOT GIR!!

 

[Imurg]

Wholeheartedly agree - Forward tees =high handicappers, mid tees = mid handicappers and back tees for low/pro.

But that assumes high handicappers all hit it short and all lownhandicappers hit it long....
If we all have our handicaps assessed from different tees than you can't really play against anyone without adjusting handicaps accordingly.

I'm the low 'capper, CVG is the mid, Fragger is the high..
I'd play from the Whites, CVG from the yellows and Fragger from the reds (snigger, snigger)
But Fragger hits it longer than CVG, it's just that CVG is straighter and better...
If we have our handicaps assessed from those tees, when we play away somewhere we have to work out which tee is relevant for each standard and then all play off different tees - with me going first all the time, starts to lose a bit of the social side of things..

For the OP...simply play senior qualifiers from the yellows, have other qualifiers from the whites so the better seniors can still play the full course.



Either that or do away with CSS.....😚

 

[FairwayDodger]

I'm not suggesting that, I'm just saying that, from an enjoyment point of view anyone, old or young will enjoy the course more playing it at a length that suits them. Hitting 3 wood for every second shot is just not my idea of fun.

Totally agree with you MIB. A few years back on my first forum trip to dundonald I was goaded into playing off the White tees and while I just about had the length to cope I got pretty fed up hitting long irons and fairway woods for all my approach shots. I would have enjoyed my round much more off the Reds, I think.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Another argument for the abolition of gender specific and Junior tees.. Use the tee best suited to your abilities and have your handicap assessed from that tee.. Everyone plays the length of course they're able to play, and everyone plays together...

I have to agree. Plenty of reason to hold events on tees best suited to the section of the club playing. As long as it has a CSS I can't see the issue other than some of the seniors will inevitably moan that they still want to be off the whites etc. I think it has to be played in such a way that it's qualifying and CSS isn't +3 always or it's reductions only

 

[Region3]

Don't see why the seniors section can't play their closed comps off whichever tees they choose.

The guys that want to play the full length will still do so in the main club comps.

Maybe suggest to them that they trial it for one or two comps and see how it goes?

 

[fundy]

Pretty sure every seniors only comp (except the senior club champs) is played off the yellows at ours

 

[351DRIVER]

But that assumes high handicappers all hit it short and all lownhandicappers hit it long....
If we all have our handicaps assessed from different tees than you can't really play against anyone without adjusting handicaps accordingly.

I'm the low 'capper, CVG is the mid, Fragger is the high..
I'd play from the Whites, CVG from the yellows and Fragger from the reds (snigger, snigger)
But Fragger hits it longer than CVG, it's just that CVG is straighter and better...
If we have our handicaps assessed from those tees, when we play away somewhere we have to work out which tee is relevant for each standard and then all play off different tees - with me going first all the time, starts to lose a bit of the social side of things..

For the OP...simply play senior qualifiers from the yellows, have other qualifiers from the whites so the better seniors can still play the full course.



Either that or do away with CSS.....

4


I agree with your post entirely, the Americans think its ok for a 4 ball all to use a different tee?!

To me, make different tees available, but ultimately i am going to use the same tee as everyone else and anyone i know would do the same, its not THAT serious

 

[Bigfoot]

At WP, there are some Seniors comps off yellow tees and some off white so it can be done.

With regard to handicap specific tees - when I have played in competition in France, the tee you used was determined by handicap and there was a slope adjustment to your handicap too.

 

[williamalex1]

Totally agree with you MIB. A few years back on my first forum trip to dundonald I was goaded into playing off the White tees and while I just about had the length to cope I got pretty fed up hitting long irons and fairway woods for all my approach shots. I would have enjoyed my round much more off the Reds, I think.

I know how you feel

 

[Alex1975]

Batchworth Park is rather set up for shorter hitters. It's nice enough but driver/gap wedge does become rather dull. Pretty much you need to play off the longest tee they will let you or it's not much fun.

 

[delc]

Batchworth Park is rather set up for shorter hitters. It's nice enough but driver/gap wedge does become rather dull. Pretty much you need to play off the longest tee they will let you or it's not much fun.

Eh! The only hole I can sometimes reach with a driver and a wedge is the short par-4 10th, and even that hole has its difficulties. Most of the other par-4's are a drive, a fairway wood and sometimes a wedge as well for me!

 

[HDID Kenny]

Senior comps at ours are off the Yellows.

 

[351DRIVER]

Batchworth Park is rather set up for shorter hitters. It's nice enough but driver/gap wedge does become rather dull. Pretty much you need to play off the longest tee they will let you or it's not much fun.

The problem is if you can hit over 300 yards (Which in reality not many do, but if you can) and others are hitting 200 yards, its basically impossible to please you both.

I am well over 100 yards longer off the tee than my old man, he plays of 8 btw at a 6650 yard course so is no hacker, our challenges are entirely different when we play, he is amazingly accurate with 3 woods and long irons (He uses them a lot) and never gets in to trouble. I on the other hand do get into trouble and faced with a longer shot into a par 5 my accuracy with a 4 iron is not great due to the fact i only ever hit longer second shots into par 5s.

Drive wedge is pretty much ever par 4 on the courses i used to play with 1 hole only being an exception
For him, he is hitting woods into many par 4s


There is not much you can do? We would always play of the same tees and we both break 80 from the back tees at 6650

Golf is not fair, learn to hit longer or learn to hit straighter, handicaps exist for a reason too

Ultimately i left a course as there were no meaningful second shots, at 5850 yards it could not offer me the pleasure of having decent 2nd shots, it was no more than drive pitch all the way round.

I think we should offer as many tees as possible but ultimately i am always going to use the same tees as my partners, for me that should be the norm, we are all there to have fun and part of that is playing together. I cannot understand the mentality the US golfers have of playing in a 4 ball using 3 different sets of tees.

The 2nd hole at my old club, is a par 4 of 465 yards
I hit drive wedge normally
old many would be driver
3 wood
wedge

He would always have a putt for a par
I would often stick one in the bushes

Good design, my ramble has a point, give options but everyone use the same tees, we all have handicaps and golf is meant to be fun

 

[patricks148]

Our seniors weekly comp is off the yellow and so are most of the senior opens up here.

Nairn is 6300 off the yellow and so a few shots easier SSS wise than the white

 

[the_coach]

this 'issue', which appears often times under many differing thread titles, inherently is about a course rating system, a handicap (index) system, a golf club teebox system that is incapable of really allowing the majority of participants to either play to their handicap with any great regularity ........ or be truly reflective of the players current ability, so routinely eats into the possible enjoyment factor that should be there for folks to experience the majority of times they tee the ball up

these systems that are built around often times a 'single' good score (sometimes a couple) to handicap throughout a complete season in truth are not truly fit for purpose .......

players playing from a teebox system that allows them to have the choice of course length (so maybes also difficulty to some extent) within their own group, are just playing then one stroke a hole from a different starting place - this does not correlate to any less camaraderie or enjoyment of play throughout a round - would say for those folks who are more challenged with the game it's the complete opposite of giving more enjoyment to their time on course

any folks playing a short course but those folks hit the ball some distance so always have less into the pin - could instead of changing GC's, can always hit pw, 9i off of the teebox to leave the 'practice' of using the longer end of the bag into the greens

 

[Sats]

But that assumes high handicappers all hit it short and all lownhandicappers hit it long....
If we all have our handicaps assessed from different tees than you can't really play against anyone without adjusting handicaps accordingly.

I'm the low 'capper, CVG is the mid, Fragger is the high..
I'd play from the Whites, CVG from the yellows and Fragger from the reds (snigger, snigger)
But Fragger hits it longer than CVG, it's just that CVG is straighter and better...
If we have our handicaps assessed from those tees, when we play away somewhere we have to work out which tee is relevant for each standard and then all play off different tees - with me going first all the time, starts to lose a bit of the social side of things..

For the OP...simply play senior qualifiers from the yellows, have other qualifiers from the whites so the better seniors can still play the full course.



Either that or do away with CSS.....

I understand that, I have a friend who is 28+ handicapper who can smash it 280 yards, However, he's not always accurate and his other parts of the game leave him behind. I'm more for abolishing ladies/pro tees and allow the player or players to choose their difficulty. Likewise, I'm in favor of a club/course being able to set the difficulty of the competition.

 

[Foxholer]

Totally agree with you MIB. A few years back on my first forum trip to dundonald I was goaded into playing off the White tees and while I just about had the length to cope I got pretty fed up hitting long irons and fairway woods for all my approach shots. I would have enjoyed my round much more off the Reds, I think.

I believe Yellows on many courses would be a good challenge for you - would certainly get you practicing your longer irons!

But what happened at DD reflects another of the issue of mixed (not just gender) handicaps, which is playing off different tees in the same group. Makes it somewhat less friendly and normally a longer (time) round. I know from experience that 2 Men and 1 Lady normally takes the same time as a 4 ball of either Men or Ladies!

 

[williamalex1]

From May to October the majority of comps are played off the white tees. We only have 1 senior open comp and only 1 senior club comp.
So our H/Cs are mostly gauged from the white medal tees.

White, yellow and reds all have their own SS.

 

[FairwayDodger]

I believe Yellows on many courses would be a good challenge for you - would certainly get you practicing your longer irons!

But what happened at DD reflects another of the issue of mixed (not just gender) handicaps, which is playing off different tees in the same group. Makes it somewhat less friendly and normally a longer (time) round. I know from experience that 2 Men and 1 Lady normally takes the same time as a 4 ball of either Men or Ladies!

Indeed, and I often play from the yellows in bounce games, especially if in a mixed group to be more sociable. Last week one of my county team mates and I played off the yellows at duddingston and had a great game with the advantage that a few holes that are way too short from the Reds became much more interesting. The problem on many courses though is that a lack of women's par and SSS from those tees prevents us from accurately using handicaps either to compete with men or just to have a realistic idea of how well we scored. At a forum meet, for example, I might as well just donate my sweep money if I'm playing off yellow or white tees while still using the same handicap.... As I have done a few times.

I'm also aware of the extra time it takes when a group is split over different tees. All the things I might do on the tee while my PPs are playing have to wait until they have played and we move to the red tee. It definitely delays play.

 

[patricks148]

Indeed, and I often play from the yellows in bounce games, especially if in a mixed group to be more sociable. Last week one of my county team mates and I played off the yellows at duddingston and had a great game with the advantage that a few holes that are way too short from the Reds became much more interesting. The problem on many courses though is that a lack of women's par and SSS from those tees prevents us from accurately using handicaps either to compete with men or just to have a realistic idea of how well we scored. At a forum meet, for example, I might as well just donate my sweep money if I'm playing off yellow or white tees while still using the same handicap.... As I have done a few times.

I'm also aware of the extra time it takes when a group is split over different tees. All the things I might do on the tee while my PPs are playing have to wait until they have played and we move to the red tee. It definitely delays play.

Karen could you just add on the diff in the sss between the red and yellow like we did at Nairn last year , so rather than lose 3 shots you gained 3??