Semi lost ball?

[romsyam]

Was playing at the weekend and hit my drive right on a par 4. I found my ball and had to knock it over some trees. Hit it well but it caught what only sounded as leaves. Thinking it would be on the line of the green I walked up there and it wasnt there probably spent about 30 seconds looking for it. My playing partner then arrives at the green asking where my ball was to which i reply i dont know im not too bothered and my cards not great. He then persuades me to go back and play another. On my way back i find it and played it and finished the hole. Playing partner said it was declared lost and nrd me.

I didnt complain till someone said that might not be right.

Just wondered what peoples thoughts are. I was a bit miffed as the ball actually landed near the fella in the first place!

 

[ScienceBoy]

You cannot declare a ball as lost...

Basic rule misconception there!

EDIT: Need to clarify but it is no longer in play once you play your provisional or the ball from the drop.

If you find it just pop it back in your bag and accept the penalty

 

[williamalex1]

imo . if your ball was found by anyone within 5 mins . and you had not played a second ball you could play that ball with no penalty.:cheers:

 

[CliveW]

imo . if your ball was found by anyone within 5 mins . and you had not played a second ball you could play that ball with no penalty.:cheers:

Almost right. As you say, the first ball was found within the five minutes so it was still in play. If you do intend to play another ball from anywhere except the tee, it becomes the ball in play when it is dropped, not when it is struck. If however you are playing another ball from the tee, it only becomes the ball in play after it is struck.

 

[Heidi]

You cant declare a ball lost
the crucial element is the 5 mins looking time - you have 5 mins to put another ball into play - that includes walking back to the tee/previous spot

cos you didnt put another ball into play then your original ball was still the ball in play and you were right to play it

not an n/r! tell ur 'friend' to read the rules

 

[williamalex1]

so are you saying that you can't play a provisional ball , anywhere thro the green. up to where your first ball was found

Almost right. As you say, the first ball was found within the five minutes so it was still in play. If you do intend to play another ball from anywhere except the tee, it becomes the ball in play when it is dropped, not when it is struck. If however you are playing another ball from the tee, it only becomes the ball in play after it is struck.

 

[romsyam]

Thanks for all the responses. He wasnt my friend and it was captains day! Its worse now as he counted wrong on first hole and he wasnt exactly accurate when replacing his ball on the green. Ball bag. I'll be letting people know hes a douche bag

 

[Colin L]

You've already got the right answer in those replies, romayam - if you found your original ball within 5 minutes of starting to search you were correct in playing it. The time of your search began when you "walked up there" and started your 30 second search, includes the time speaking to the other player and walking back to the moment when you found your ball.

But may I mention one or two matters from the replies?

You cannot declare a ball as lost...Basic rule misconception there!
There were a few years when the definition of a lost ball included declaring it lost but that disappeared from the Rules around about 1966. So something that was there for about 6 years in the 60's has lasted as golf's most enduring myth for some 46 years. My opponent in a match just 2 days ago came out with it.

You cant declare a ball lost - the crucial element is the 5 mins looking time - you have 5 mins to put another ball into play - that includes walking back to the tee/previous spot
That's not quite right. The 5 minutes is simply searching time. If your ball is not found within 5 minutes, it is lost. After that, but not part of the 5 minutes, you carry on by going back to play from where the previous stroke was made or by playing your provisional.

so are you saying that you can't play a provisional ball , anywhere thro the green. up to where your first ball was found
You can play a provisional ball whenever you like provided the original ball has not yet been found. If it is played further from the green than where your original is likely to be, it remains a provisional and is not in play. If it is played from nearer the green or from where the original is likely to be, the original is lost (even if it subsequently found!) and the provisional is your ball in play.

 

[chrisd]

Colin has pretty well summed up the rule that you ask about, but, it really does pay to learn the basic rules as quickly as possible and to read this thread regularly. I am by no means a "rules man" but if I took notice of the rules as trotted out by some of my playing partners then there would be penalties missed or added in totally wrong situations week after week.

Have a go at the rules quiz on the www.RandA.org web site as it covers loads of the basics and you can choose 10 questions from easy to difficult and they change the questions fairly often.

Try and learn the important ones like water hazards, nearest point of relief, playing provisionals and how many shot penalties are applied. I always make a point of checking any infringment when I get home that I'm not sure of, so I'm wised up next time the same thing happens.

 

[Foxholer]

You cannot declare a ball as lost...

Basic rule misconception there!

EDIT: Need to clarify but it is no longer in play once you play your provisional or the ball from the drop.

If you find it just pop it back in your bag and accept the penalty

Indeed a misconception.

The misconception(s) here was that the act of returning to the place where last played meant that ball was lost - that's bollox (it'd the putting another in play, as stated above). And even so, an NR would be wrong (unless for Stableford) as it would only have been a penalty for playing wrong ball - unless not 'corrected'.

BTW SB. Your statement about 'playing your provisional' is a bit woolly. Provisional can only be played immediately you think ball may be lost ('going back to play a provisional' can't happen) nd it can continue to be played up to (just short of - for 'safety') where original is likely to be.

 

[Ian_S]

Just for added reference, the solution in these situations is to play two balls and then go get a decision once you're in the clubhouse.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

That's not quite right. The 5 minutes is simply searching time. If your ball is not found within 5 minutes, it is lost. After that, but not part of the 5 minutes, you carry on by going back to play from where the previous stroke was made or by playing your provisional.

...which implies that you can take as long as you like about 'going back to play from where the previous stroke was made or by playing your provisional'. So if the weather turns bad, but you know it is clearing in a few hours time, you could just hang about until it does before playing your provisional or putting another ball in play - letting everyone else through of course. This doesn't feel right.

 

[Colin L]

....... And even so, an NR would be wrong (unless for Stableford) as it would only have been a penalty for playing wrong ball - unless not 'corrected'.

I'm not clear how a wrong ball situation could occur. There are two possibilities in what romsyan describes:

a) because he cannot find his ball, he goes back to play from where he played his last stroke and finds his ball on the way. He plays it.

b) because he cannot find his ball, he goes back to play from where he played his last stroke and finds his ball on the way. He is unfortunately impressed by his FC's obvious grasp of the Rules, and believes the ball to be 'lost" because of some declaration he has supposedly made. He picks it up, drops it where he last played and plays out the hole with it.

We have settled (a). In (b), by picking up his ball and playing it from where it was last played, he is not playing a wrong ball. He is legitimately playing under a penalty of stroke and distance in accordance with Rule 27-1a. His score for the hole is the number of actual strokes played plus 1 PS.

For general info, Rule 27-1a allows us to play any time, anywhere from where the ball was last played under a 1 stroke penalty ("stroke and distance"). It's a handy rule to know when you have a rush of blood and overhit a putt past the hole, down a slope and into a bunker. (Yes, of course, I've done it ) You might consider it a safer bet to take the penalty and putt again than to play out the bunker.

 

[full_throttle]

Taking the original scene, I cannot find my ball so start to walk back to the last place it was placed from - does this then mean I can still play the ball if found (by anyone) whilst walking back or not?

 

[Colin L]

...which implies that you can take as long as you like about 'going back to play from where the previous stroke was made or by playing your provisional'. So if the weather turns bad, but you know it is clearing in a few hours time, you could just hang about until it does before playing your provisional or putting another ball in play - letting everyone else through of course. This doesn't feel right.

It does not imply that at all. You can't take as long as you like going back to where you last played or for any other aspect of the game. See Rule 6-7 Undue Delay; SLow Play. Plus, a player cannot suspend play because of bad weather (electrical storms excepted) - see Rule 6-8. All of that, however, is quite separate from the fact that a ball is, by Definition, lost after 5 minutes of searching, not 3 minutes searching plus 2 for going back or for putting your provisional into play.

 

[BTatHome]

Taking the original scene, I cannot find my ball so start to walk back to the last place it was placed from - does this then mean I can still play the ball if found (by anyone) whilst walking back or not?

Only if you found it within the 5 min search time.

 

[Colin L]

There were a few years when the definition of a lost ball included declaring it lost but that disappeared from the Rules around about 1966. So something that was there for about 6 years in the 60's has lasted as golf's most enduring myth for some 46 years.

In the interests of historical accuracy let me get these dates right: declaring a ball lost was born in the 1956 rule book and died in 1964. A brief and i expect problematic reign of 8 years .....and a post-mortem influence for 48 years and no doubt more to come.

 

[AmandaJR]

So if you can't declare a ball lost what do you declare it? Unable to find? AWOL?

 

[bobmac]

So if you can't declare a ball lost what do you declare it? Unable to find? AWOL?

Passed it's bed time ?

 

[BTatHome]

So if you can't declare a ball lost what do you declare it? Unable to find? AWOL?

You don't declare it anything, it becomes lost when your 5 mins searching ends. Another ball becomes 'in play' ... Various actions can also makes another all the ball in play ( detailed above)