Question time last night had some good debate and some interesting points put across well from the panel and audiences. It certainly would make you think no matter what side of the argument you fell on initially.
Second Chances
- Thread starter bladeplayer
- Start date
Paul_Stewart
Tour Rookie
On Michael Vick, I am sure the NFL imposed some additional restrictions on him. The Falcons cut him as their owner Arthur "Walt Disney clone" Blank didn't want any bad publicity for the Home Depot chain that he also owned. Same with the Ravens when the owner Steve Biscotti cut Rice although he was done as an NFL tail back anyway. If it helped, we banned Vick from our fantasy league and no-one was allowed to select him.
Still on NFL terms, I have seen some serious double standards on supposed team behaviour. The Bucs in the past 10 years have had two players caught drink driving. One was a back-up offensive lineman who had hardly seen any playing time, the other was a starter and main offensive weapon. Guess which one was immediately released "proving the team does not condone such actions" and which was not, "we believe in supporting our players and letting the due legal process take its course"?
Still on NFL terms, I have seen some serious double standards on supposed team behaviour. The Bucs in the past 10 years have had two players caught drink driving. One was a back-up offensive lineman who had hardly seen any playing time, the other was a starter and main offensive weapon. Guess which one was immediately released "proving the team does not condone such actions" and which was not, "we believe in supporting our players and letting the due legal process take its course"?
Paul_Stewart
Tour Rookie
So I take it Russell Brand or Joey Barton weren't invited this week?
Fyldewhite
Tour Winner
Assuming his guilt....and that is the legal position at present, I think most would agree that criminals should be given a second chance. I'm also sure that everyone would agree that simply resuming where you left off isn't acceptable in many circumstances (sex offender working with children, fraudster working in finance etc). So where should football stand in all this? There are numerous examples where convicted criminals have resumed a career in football albeit sometimes with restrictions so the precedence has already been set and there are theoretically no obstacles to resuming his career.
That said there is a massive difference between resuming his career and just carrying on where he left off. All the publicity is because he is trying to do the latter. If he had set his sights lower at a club where the potential benefit of having a championship standard player outweighs the potential loss of some minor sponsorship by the local car dealer or whatever all this would have blown over in a few days and even then probably only in the local news. Overall, yes, like anyone he deserves a second chance but not the chance he's trying to carve out.
That said there is a massive difference between resuming his career and just carrying on where he left off. All the publicity is because he is trying to do the latter. If he had set his sights lower at a club where the potential benefit of having a championship standard player outweighs the potential loss of some minor sponsorship by the local car dealer or whatever all this would have blown over in a few days and even then probably only in the local news. Overall, yes, like anyone he deserves a second chance but not the chance he's trying to carve out.
Why should he go lower though? A surgeon gets a treated for drink driving. Serves his time and then comes back as a hospital porter?
These clubs only have morales when it suits them. If he was a world star and did it. Big clubs would still take him back.
Gazza was a drunk and an abusive husband but how badly did people think of him at the time?
D
Deleted member 16999
Guest
Surely it's his job that puts him in the situation, I'm sure Gary Glitter was no danger stood on the stage singing(doing his job), but it's his job that gives opportunity, so letting him play football will turn him into a role model ?, maybe he should've been that before this happened.
(I am not comparing Evans to Glitter, purely using those as an argument against people returning to there "job")
im not sure I've said anywhere that he should be a role model. In fact elsewhere ive argued that footballers shouldn't be expected to be. Just because if their wealth. There are lots of famous people that set bad examples and continue to work. my nephews love iron mans. Should they follow Robert Downey jnr example?
His job didn't help him. He went to town, and took adamant age of a women. If him being famous has played a part then I would argue it rules out rape. Surely if she knew who he was and went back with him, willingly to a hotel she must of had an idea of what his intentions were. Had anytime ever invited a girl back to their hotel just to talk?
His job didn't help him. He went to town, and took adamant age of a women. If him being famous has played a part then I would argue it rules out rape. Surely if she knew who he was and went back with him, willingly to a hotel she must of had an idea of what his intentions were. Had anytime ever invited a girl back to their hotel just to talk?
Tarkus1212
Challenge Tour Pro
There are plenty of professions where a convicted rapist would not be able to continue their career: doctor, teacher, police officer to name just three.
At the moment Evans is a convicted rapist.
Would a well known actor convicted of rape ever work as an actor again?
At the moment Evans is a convicted rapist.
Would a well known actor convicted of rape ever work as an actor again?
Tarkus1212
Challenge Tour Pro
Evans didn't invite anyone to a hotel room, his mate found the girl, took her to a hotel room booked and paid for by Evans. Evans then received a text along the lines of "I've got a girl, are you coming over?" - Evans intentions were pretty clear, the girl can't have known he was coming let alone who he was.
But those professions don't rule or rapists on some morale grounds? Or as punishment saying they're not allowed to earn great wealth. They do is a children are regularly in the environment. As a footballer he isn't expected to associate with drunken women (his apparent target) on a daily basis.
D
Deleted member 16999
Guest
It's the lifestyle that comes with his job, bonus for the majority!
Entry into exclusive nightclubs, VIP treatment.....excess alcohol etc, who know's what this could lead to?
That is all conjecture. She could just as easily have only gone back with the mate on the promise of meeting a footballer. She has admitted she has no recitation of any of it.
I'm not defending his actions. But I've not seen anywhere whether he was at any point in her company before the incident or not? But apparently they were all out together so id imagine he'd have seen her that night already.
ger147
Tour Winner
I wouldn't be able to continue my career as an IT contractor working in all the well known high street banks if I was convicted of rape. I've known people being knocked back due to driving convictions never mind something as serious as rape.
Excess alcohol only goes to the rich and famous? Do me a favour?!
Apparently they picked her up in a pizza shop! Hardly exclusive. A lot of these clubs have wag wannabes door to door. Looking to sell a story or catch a man. I'm not saying she was one or in any way deserved anything. But If he really is this rapist monster then I'd imagine he could strike again without the need for money.
Tarkus1212
Challenge Tour Pro
No conjecture - it's all outlined here:
https://www.crimeline.info/case/r-v-ched-evans-chedwyn-evans
This transcript summary is worth a read, nowhere does anyone claim that the girl met Evans or his mate earlier in the night.
I'd imagine in your job you'd need to be able to visit multiple places so not being able to drive could be a reason do be rejected. I'm not trying to belittle his act or support him. But I think it's down to a business to decide who they employ. If I was a conference side of snap him up as he'd probaly get 30+ goals a season and that would keep a club afloat and keep people in work.
Unless a law is passed stating career paths that must follow convictions then I don't see anything changing.
Tarkus1212
Challenge Tour Pro
Realistically if he wants to carry on playing football it won't be with a team in the top two of three divisions. No club can afford to lose sponsors which is likely to happen whichever club tries to sign him. He may be better off waiting until his appeal is heard, if he wins that then he can go to whoever wants him.
Ok, so it appears they were obviously looking for a drunk girl to take advantage. That doesn't imo constitute rape. She also said you aren't going to leave me are you? That appears to me that she knew others would be coming along? Now whether she knew what would happen is all about opinions. But imo she's gone to the hotel knowing the two of them would have sex and knew of the text. As she knew someone else would be there. I can't imagine in her state she'd have been to bothered if he was just going to leave her there to sleep?
I agree. I also think if he'd shown some sort of remorse. I know he feels innocent. By he's at least taken advantage of a drunk and cheated on his partner. He may not have looked so bad. I think he's been poorly advised on the whole situation.
Val
Ryder Cup Winner
What is bamboozling is if she cannot remember anything them why is one man innocent and one guilty?
