Second Chances

[Tarkus1212]

She thinks they're both guilty. I agree though it is quite odd that the jury came to that conclusion, it does make me think that his appeal may be successful.

 

[FairwayDodger]

What is bamboozling is if she cannot remember anything them why is one man innocent and one guilty?

Read that link, explains it quite clearly.

The circumstances by which each man had sex with her were significantly different.

 

[Papas1982]

What is bamboozling is if she cannot remember anything them why is one man innocent and one guilty?

I can only imagine it's because the jury decided that she went to the hotel with him and that indicates her being wiling. But having just read it all courtesy of the link provided me. It does look like a lass who's got wasted and made a big mistake and regretted it the next day.

Are they lowlife for preying on a girl that smashed. Yes they sure are. Are they rapists, I'm not so sure.

 

[Papas1982]

Read that link, explains it quite clearly.

The circumstances by which each man had sex with her were significantly different.

But she also appears to know someone else is coming. And merely asked not to be left alone. Not for it not to happen. Yes she has been used as a price of meat and that's low. But I'm not sure it's what I call rape.
I'd not be surprised if it's iverturned eventually.

 

[FairwayDodger]

But she also appears to know someone else is coming. And merely asked not to be left alone. Not for it not to happen. Yes she has been used as a price of meat and that's low. But I'm not sure it's what I call rape.
I'd not be surprised if it's iverturned eventually.

That's a big leap that you're making from one comment, I don't understand how you reach that conclusion.

 

[ger147]

I'd imagine in your job you'd need to be able to visit multiple places so not being able to drive could be a reason do be rejected. I'm not trying to belittle his act or support him. But I think it's down to a business to decide who they employ. If I was a conference side of snap him up as he'd probaly get 30+ goals a season and that would keep a club afloat and keep people in work.

Unless a law is passed stating career paths that must follow convictions then I don't see anything changing.

Nope, being able to drive has never been a requirement for any of my jobs. But a conviction rules out being taken on even if you don't lose your licence or after you've got it back but conviction shows up on your CRB check.

 

[Hobbit]

Ok, so it appears they were obviously looking for a drunk girl to take advantage. That doesn't imo constitute rape. She also said you aren't going to leave me are you? That appears to me that she knew others would be coming along? Now whether she knew what would happen is all about opinions. But imo she's gone to the hotel knowing the two of them would have sex and knew of the text. As she knew someone else would be there. I can't imagine in her state she'd have been to bothered if he was just going to leave her there to sleep?

Taking advantage of someone who might say no if she were sober IS rape. She may also have known others were coming BUT she may have thought it was for a drinking session. And her state is why the guys should have behaved more responsibly and not taken advantage. The crucial bit is to "to take".

 

[JustOne]

It does look like a lass who's got wasted and made a big mistake and regretted it the next day.

I agree but don't think she regretted it I'm sure I read it was the police that pressed charges and not her, she just wanted her lost phone back (or something like that) but the police said she was raped as she couldn't recount what had happened. I just wonder how anyone is supposed to know what someone is/isn't going to remeber in the morning.

The mob mindedness about this is totally pathetic, the man should be able to get on with his life after doing his sentence as per the law - as should the 'victim'. He's a footballernot a teacher/paedo/judge or whatever. Didn't our 'role model' David Beckham spend some time as an adulterer? We love David Beckham!

 

[Hacker Khan]

im not sure I've said anywhere that he should be a role model. In fact elsewhere ive argued that footballers shouldn't be expected to be. Just because if their wealth. There are lots of famous people that set bad examples and continue to work. my nephews love iron mans. Should they follow Robert Downey jnr example?

His job didn't help him. He went to town, and took adamant age of a women. If him being famous has played a part then I would argue it rules out rape. Surely if she knew who he was and went back with him, willingly to a hotel she must of had an idea of what his intentions were. Had anytime ever invited a girl back to their hotel just to talk?

So you are saying that if a woman goes back to her room with someone 'famous' and then for whatever reason does not concent to sex, but the man has sex with her without consent, then it is not rape? So effectively the act of going to a room with a famous person is consent in your world? And the woman has no right to say no at any stage?

Rape is not just committed by strangers pouncing on women in darkly lit parks.

 

[Papas1982]

She asked for him not to leave. In her apparent state, I doubt very much she was able to think to long term and was asking him to stay all night and cuddle, or not to simply tuck her in and leave her.

I actually think having read it all, it appears more likely that she was taking advantage of and regretted it than forfully raped. Surely If she was raped then his mate should be charged also as he was at least an accomplice?

 

[JustOne]

So you are saying that if a woman goes back to her room with someone 'famous' and then for whatever reason does not concent to sex, but the man has sex with her without consent, then it is not rape?

That would be rape... but no one is going to be able to prove it either way. She didn't feel/think she had been raped (so I gather - see above) but they were guilty in the eyes of the law. He's been treated as if he DID jump out of some darkly lit place, I've read a lot of web comments about rape being a violent crime and him being tarred with that brush by the mob who have taken little time to read ANYTHING about the case.

Incedentally, in your scenario, how would she know that she hadn't consented?

 

[Val]

I fully agree she was taken advantage of and that's not right, I believe she was aware of what she was involving herself in. Both suspects fully co-operated anand were truthfully of what happened, the victim is the only person who can answer if she was 100% truthful.

As for Evans and his mate, scumbags? Definitely. Rapists? I have many doubts

 

[Papas1982]

Taking advantage of someone who might say no if she were sober IS rape. She may also have known others were coming BUT she may have thought it was for a drinking session. And her state is why the guys should have behaved more responsibly and not taken advantage. The crucial bit is to "to take".

Surely with drunken one night stands one person is usually slightly worse for wear than the other? So surely all these cases are rape?

What is to say she would have sold no ifs he was sober though? There's nithing to suggest she would have? She might be an angel, she might not be?

Would she really have been bothered about drinking with anyone else imparticular?

I think what they did was out of line. But I think it's come from her shame and embarrassment the following morning.

 

[JustOne]

As for Evans and his mate, scumbags? Definitely. Rapists? I have many doubts

I don't see why they are even scumbags, is it bad to want a 3some with someone after leaving the pub? I'd be up for it

Damn!! I'm a scumbag I knew it

 

[Papas1982]

So you are saying that if a woman goes back to her room with someone 'famous' and then for whatever reason does not concent to sex, but the man has sex with her without consent, then it is not rape? So effectively the act of going to a room with a famous person is consent in your world? And the woman has no right to say no at any stage?

Rape is not just committed by strangers pouncing on women in darkly lit parks.

I didn't mean that AT ALL. I simply meant that if she'd realised who he was. In her state and chose to go back and knew someone else was coming she must have known the implications. She also said she had no recollection of it. And the hotel worker said he heard noises that appeared to show her enjoying herself. So for me she hadn't rejected him or had second thoughts. She simply got smashed. Made a bad choice and felt ashamed.

 

[JustOne]

I think what they did was out of line. But I think it's come from her shame and embarrassment the following morning.

From Ched Evans website...

The police arrested both Ched and Clayton at the station, they acknowledged that the only evidence that sexual activity had taken place was their admission. There was no complaint of rape, no forensic evidence, no injury and no complaint.

From the police report...

The complainant said that her next memory was waking up in the hotel room at about 11.30am. She realised that she was alone. She was naked and had urinated in the bed. She had a headache and was confused. She reported the matter to the police.

Someone isn't telling the story correctly

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Excess alcohol only goes to the rich and famous? Do me a favour?!

Apparently they picked her up in a pizza shop! Hardly exclusive. A lot of these clubs have wag wannabes door to door. Looking to sell a story or catch a man. I'm not saying she was one or in any way deserved anything. But If he really is this rapist monster then I'd imagine he could strike again without the need for money.

My post is in context to future behaviour

 

[Papas1982]

My post is in context to future behaviour

I still don't see how it makes him more likely to strike again?

it just shows reasons for people to be jealous of his career path continuing. I'd also argue that as a league on player he won't be in those circles either. The original case was in Rhyl, not KNightsbridge.

 

[MadAdey]

To make something clear before this post, I do not condone what they did, they took advantage of someone who was hammered and not really in a fit state to make sensible choices. I find rape to be possibly the most disgusting crimes around.

IMO being drunk and having unforced sex with someone should not be deemed as rape. Did she say yes, or did she say no. From what I read she can't really remember but is sure she did not want sex with Evans. Did Evans get her to consent, from what I read no. But on the other hand she did not tell him no.

So Evans has been convicted in my eyes because he took advantage of a girl that was drunk and not in any fit state to make sound decisions.

But in the eyes of the law is being drunk a sound excuse? If I got into a car, drunk, crashed into a kids playground and killed 10 of them I would be getting hung, drawn and quartered. Even though I was not in a fit state because of my level of intoxication to make a sound decision, it was my choice to get drunk in the first place which led to my subsequent actions. If I was a witness to a crime, but I was too drunk to really remember what happened, the defence would get my testimony thrown out in an instant. But in the case of a woman accusing a man of rape, even though she was too smashed to consent, he can be found guilty even though there are no other witnesses.

 

[Val]

I didn't mean that AT ALL. I simply meant that if she'd realised who he was. In her state and chose to go back and knew someone else was coming she must have known the implications. She also said she had no recollection of it. And the hotel worker said he heard noises that appeared to show her enjoying herself. So for me she hadn't rejected him or had second thoughts. She simply got smashed. Made a bad choice and felt ashamed.

She knew exactly who Ched Evans was, it's a.cery small community