Second Chances

[Papas1982]

She knew exactly who Ched Evans was, it's a.cery small community

Im sure she did. The point I was poorly trying to make was that I believe she knew of the situation she was getting into, and if coherent enough to make that call she'd be coherent enough to remember. So either she remembers and is lying. Or she was so hammered that who he was had no relevance therefor his fame played no part and that as she can't confirm saying yes or no, I don't see there being enough proof to show it as rape. Madadeys point above about responsibilities when drunk work for me.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Im sure she did. The point I was poorly trying to make was that I believe she knew of the situation she was getting into, and if coherent enough to make that call she'd be coherent enough to remember. So either she remembers and is lying. Or she was so hammered that who he was had no relevance therefor his fame played no part and that as she can't confirm saying yes or no, I don't see there being enough proof to show it as rape. Madadeys point above about responsibilities when drunk work for me.

So if she was iup for it and knew who Ched Evans was(as I'm sure all 19yr old girls would) why did just him and not the other 2 proffessional footballers with him go in the room and why did the other two who then video'd it on there mobiles from outside the room, keep it to help there mate rather than delete it.
She may of been seen as a willing participant.
As someone previously posted only two people know the truth.
The OP asked the question should they be given a second chance. IMO certain crimes no, yes we have innocent men proven guilty, but unless they prove there innocence and are allowed to rebuild there lives, no

 

[Papas1982]

So if she was iup for it and knew who Ched Evans was(as I'm sure all 19yr old girls would) why did just him and not the other 2 proffessional footballers with him go in the room and why did the other two who then video'd it on there mobiles from outside the room, keep it to help there mate rather than delete it.
She may of been seen as a willing participant.
As someone previously posted only two people know the truth.
The OP asked the question should they be given a second chance. IMO certain crimes no, yes we have innocent men proven guilty, but unless they prove there innocence and are allowed to rebuild there lives, no

Ok, that's a fair point. Back to the op then. Does that mean they should once released from prison simply sign in and live off benefits? Because I still can't see any reason other than jealousy of his wealth why he should be able to do a different job than the one he's accomplished at?

 

[Val]

Ok, that's a fair point. Back to the op then. Does that mean they should once released from prison simply sign in and live off benefits? Because I still can't see any reason other than jealousy of his wealth why he should be able to do a different job than the one he's accomplished at?

Good point, let him back into football and contribute to tax coffers or he signs on as a burden to the tax payer

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Ok, that's a fair point. Back to the op then. Does that mean they should once released from prison simply sign in and live off benefits? Because I still can't see any reason other than jealousy of his wealth why he should be able to do a different job than the one he's accomplished at?

Why can't he retrain, what would a teacher, policeman, soldier do? His current job is used as an argument by both sides, his profile is irrelevant to me.

 

[c1973]

I'm not fully aware of the details of the case, but would it be correct to assume that all parties involved were drunk/very drunk and not just the female?

 

[Deleted member 16999]

If a teacher in an all girls school is convicted of an offence against girls are you happy for him to be given a second chance with a job at an all boys school?

 

[jp5]

If a teacher in an all girls school is convicted of an offence against girls are you happy for him to be given a second chance with a job at an all boys school?

Ridiculous comparison.

Teachers of any school are in a position of trust. Footballers aren't.

 

[FairwayDodger]

Taking the guilt/innocence arguments out of it, since we'll never reach a consensus on that, and focussing only on the "second chances" theme, I think Evans has been very badly advised.

If he came out of prison full of contrition, made it clear what he did was unacceptable (rape or not) and advised young men not to make the same mistakes (for want of a better word) that he did, he could have taken a big first step in earning a second chance. His approach has only hardened public opinion against him. Effectively he's put all his eggs in one basket - clearing his name - and unless there are facts that are not in the public domain (Val ) I just can't see that happening.

 

[Papas1982]

Why can't he retrain, what would a teacher, policeman, soldier do? His current job is used as an argument by both sides, his profile is irrelevant to me.

My question is why?
The professions you name would in theory be in contact with their likely victims. He won't.
Is there a default job you'd like to offer up as acceptable that all rapists should do once out of prison?

If you commit a crime that is work related you should be banned from that role if not I don't see the argument. Fraud rules on bank jobs etc, sex offences working with kids etc. but what footballer banned from football. If he was a sunday league player can he no longer turn out on a Sunday?

 

[Papas1982]

Taking the guilt/innocence arguments out of it, since we'll never reach a consensus on that, and focussing only on the "second chances" theme, I think Evans has been very badly advised.

If he came out of prison full of contrition, made it clear what he did was unacceptable (rape or not) and advised young men not to make the same mistakes (for want of a better word) that he did, he could have taken a big first step in earning a second chance. His approach has only hardened public opinion against him. Effectively he's put all his eggs in one basket - clearing his name - and unless there are facts that are not in the public domain (Val ) I just can't see that happening.

I agree with this, the apology he has offered now is far too late.
I do also think some people in the media are using this more for attention of themselves than the real issues.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Ridiculous comparison.

Teachers of any school are in a position of trust. Footballers aren't.

Why is it ridiculous? If they are no threat to boys whats the difference?

 

[Deleted member 16999]

My question is why?
The professions you name would in theory be in contact with their likely victims. He won't.
Is there a default job you'd like to offer up as acceptable that all rapists should do once out of prison?

If you commit a crime that is work related you should be banned from that role if not I don't see the argument. Fraud rules on bank jobs etc, sex offences working with kids etc. but what footballer banned from football. If he was a sunday league player can he no longer turn out on a Sunday?

How would some of these people likely come into contact, the argument with Evans is not his footballing ability but the lifestyle and opportunities it brings.

 

[jp5]

Why is it ridiculous? If they are no threat to boys whats the difference?

Do you really not know what the difference is or are you just trying to flog a point?

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Do you not know what the difference is or are you just trying to flog a point?

Not flogging a point just see peado's and rapists as the same thing and should be treated the same, are you really saying professional footballers can guarantee not being in situations with young females, he's only in the public eye for 2 x 90 minutes a week!

 

[Imurg]

Is there an intoxication level that, once passed, means you are deemed unable to make a rational decision?
There seems to be a lot of assumption that this girl was incapable of making that decision.
She doesn't know, she has little or no recollection of events after a certain time.

From where I sit there seems to be "reasonable doubt" - having said that, a lot of people get away with murder due to that phrase.

2nd chance - once his parole term is finished or he clears his name he should be allowed to resume his career in my opinion.
But not until he's "free" - the punishment has to continue until then.
Although, in that scenario, how do you rehabilitate "Lifer's"..?
They come out are 10, 15 or whatever years but are still on licence until Judgement Day.
These people have to do something otherwise they end up living off the State so you may as well keep them inside.

 

[Papas1982]

How does his money in anyway make him more likely to see a 19 year old in a town centre. Or book a premier inn. I'm pretty sure most of us could foot the bill for what his Victim drank?

He could do any other job and still go in pubs and bars. Ill ask again, what low paying job should all rapists do so as not to be envied by others?

 

[Papas1982]

Not flogging a point just see peado's and rapists as the same thing and should be treated the same, are you really saying professional footballers can guarantee not being in situations with young females, he's only in the public eye for 2 x 90 minutes a week!

Same point remains, of course he'd be further vilified. But if he was a paedo, his job doesn't make him more likely to be around Young kids.

He wouldn't be in the public eye at all if he was say a builder (no offence intended to anyone) so would i theory find it easy with nobody watching him?

 

[Deleted member 16999]

How does his money in anyway make him more likely to see a 19 year old in a town centre. Or book a premier inn. I'm pretty sure most of us could foot the bill for what his Victim drank?

He could do any other job and still go in pubs and bars. Ill ask again, what low paying job should all rapists do so as not to be envied by others?

But your point is just as apt for all jobs, but yet others have to do it,

 

[bluewolf]

How does his money in anyway make him more likely to see a 19 year old in a town centre. Or book a premier inn. I'm pretty sure most of us could foot the bill for what his Victim drank?

He could do any other job and still go in pubs and bars. Ill ask again, what low paying job should all rapists do so as not to be envied by others?

I appreciate that you are following a tangent started by someone else, but It should be stated that his current situation has absolutely nothing to do with who he comes into contact with. He is a PR nightmare for anyone who tries to give him a contract. Whoever it is will lose sponsorship by the bucketload..

It's about money and nothing else. I'm certain that if he was World Class, he'd already be playing again by now. His problem now is that he is employed in a sport that is 100% ruled by money. It was before he was convicted, and he can't really complain that it hasn't changed whilst he's been inside... He is guilty of stupidity as well as rape, and I've no real sympathy for him at all..