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Scottish independence

Doon frae Troon said:
One thing that bothers me now that the vote looks like being close.
What is the carrying majority?
51%-49% would be an awful result.
I think I read somewhere that 51% will carry but that seems to be a bit daft.
Is it 51% of the population or the voters......anyone know?
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Aha - this is the scenario in which I have suggested that the view of us ex-pats could be taken into account in some way - a very close vote would not be good - especially (IMO) one with a margin of less than the number of non-Scots who voted.
 
Doon frae Troon said:
One thing that bothers me now that the vote looks like being close.
What is the carrying majority?
51%-49% would be an awful result.
I think I read somewhere that 51% will carry but that seems to be a bit daft.
Is it 51% of the population or the voters......anyone know?
Click to expand...

It is a simple majority i.e. 50% + 1 vote of the votes cast.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
It was the (Westminster) Lib Dem Scottish Secretary who was suggesting that Scotland might want 'back in' to the UK if things didn't go so well - not something the YES campaign would ever suggest would be a possibility or a 'fallback'. But as AC was doing on behalf of BT - try and 'frighten' Scots by telling them that once they are out of the UK they are out and no way back. As I said - a NO means no way out of the UK - possibly ever - and that might worry some voters.

Take care not to conflate issues English voters have with the democratic process and government in England - that's an affair for England to sort out if Scotland were yes. Somone on R5L was complaining that with no Scottish Labour MPS England would be stuck with a Tory government - well that may be the case - so something England has to sort out if it's not happy with it. Nothing to do with Scotland.

And why should Scotland not have the same membership conditions as the rUK. It's easy to say that it won't but there is absolutely no evidence to back that up - again assertions made by BT (based upon what a Spanish PM says when clearly he is aiming his comments internally to Spain/Catalunia). The EU will want Scotland as a member - Scotland is a relatively wealthy and prosperous country. Besides as someone said - you can say that this, that and the other won't happen around such as the EU membership and Sterling post a NO vote, but in reality the probability is that Scotland would be in the EU with Sterling as it's currency.
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Trouble is SLH I read that and watched the programme and cant get enthused about whatever Scotland wants. We've got 26 pages of stuff on here concerning independence, yet, I've hardly heard a single conversation here in the, much derided, south east of England talking about the subject, and on the odd occasion that I have, the feeling is largely "why can't we have a vote to get rid" much of the stuff is only about "what's in it for us" it all seems a bit selfish to me. I know that we'd be better in the South East to declare independence from the rest of the country as we would be better off and be able to retain a Tory government and be better off as a result :ooo:
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
try and 'frighten' Scots by telling them that once they are out of the UK they are out and no way back.


The EU will want Scotland as a member - Scotland is a relatively wealthy and prosperous country.
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It was fun being in Edinburgh on Tuesday for work - particularly dealing with those Scottish public sector workers who clearly showed where they stood on the independence issue with a number of anti-Westminster / English barbs in my direction! Very professional I thought, especially as we were in the company of European Commission officials!

Re. your first point, I can't see a problem with saying that a 'Yes' vote probably means out for good. Afterall isn't that the whole point of the independence argument? That Scotland will be better off as an independent nation, forging their own identity in the world? At some point down the line to turn round and say 'you know what, we made a bit of a mistake 'x' years ago, we're not doing as well as we first thought and we'd like to come back please' probably wouldn't be acceptable to the rest of the UK. I would also assume if that scenario ever happened, then it would be put to voters in England, Wales and NI first as to whether to admit Scotland back into the Union.

On the EU question, I would hope that voters in an independent Scotland would actually get a vote on whether to become a member of the EU. Seeing how the EU operates with my job, I cannot see why any nation that has sought independence from one Union would want to join another one that is arguably even more restrictive than the one they were in!

Anyway, very interesting debate to be had between now and next September. Just a shame that the whole process cannot be administered by some independent arbitrator who can give the voters in Scotland the truth on every issue and avoid all the claim and counter claim from the Yes and No camps. In fact, wouldn't that be great for every election! Every party produces their manifesto, then they say and do nothing for a few months until election day!!
 
PieMan said:
It was fun being in Edinburgh on Tuesday for work - particularly dealing with those Scottish public sector workers who clearly showed where they stood on the independence issue with a number of anti-Westminster / English barbs in my direction! Very professional I thought, especially as we were in the company of European Commission officials!

Re. your first point, I can't see a problem with saying that a 'Yes' vote probably means out for good. Afterall isn't that the whole point of the independence argument? That Scotland will be better off as an independent nation, forging their own identity in the world? At some point down the line to turn round and say 'you know what, we made a bit of a mistake 'x' years ago, we're not doing as well as we first thought and we'd like to come back please' probably wouldn't be acceptable to the rest of the UK. I would also assume if that scenario ever happened, then it would be put to voters in England, Wales and NI first as to whether to admit Scotland back into the Union.

On the EU question, I would hope that voters in an independent Scotland would actually get a vote on whether to become a member of the EU. Seeing how the EU operates with my job, I cannot see why any nation that has sought independence from one Union would want to join another one that is arguably even more restrictive than the one they were in!

Anyway, very interesting debate to be had between now and next September. Just a shame that the whole process cannot be administered by some independent arbitrator who can give the voters in Scotland the truth on every issue and avoid all the claim and counter claim from the Yes and No camps. In fact, wouldn't that be great for every election! Every party produces their manifesto, then they say and do nothing for a few months until election day!!
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You want politicians to be exposed to the truth Paul - how radical!
 
Doon frae Troon said:
Please can we get two things correct before we start any more posts.
If Elected an independent Scotland will be negotiating with the rest of the UK and NOT England.
And
The Bank of England is an independent body, free from political control, that represents the UK. Think Bank of UK if that makes it easier. It's sole purpose is to protect the pound. [BTW it was founded by a Scotsman and currently run by a Canadian]
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They will be negotating with Parliament minus Scottish MPs. So mainly English.

The Bank of England is only free from Political control as long as the Government of the day wish it to be so. One of it's responsibilities is to protect the pound (as you say) and to do that it needs to set interest rates and support the Banking system. I cant see how the BOE could do that with a Scottish State where the Fiscal policies were managed outside it's influence. Would the BOE be expected to bail out Scottish banks if they were in financial difficulties?
 
SocketRocket said:
Would the BOE be expected to bail out Scottish banks if they were in financial difficulties?
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There are no Scottish banks really, is there?Much as there is no English banks.They're multi-national PLC's who operate around the globe, and wherever they create debt to the extent they require bailing out, the country in which they created that debt is responsible for clearing up the mess.
 
chrisd said:
Trouble is SLH I read that and watched the programme and cant get enthused about whatever Scotland wants. We've got 26 pages of stuff on here concerning independence, yet, I've hardly heard a single conversation here in the, much derided, south east of England talking about the subject, and on the odd occasion that I have, the feeling is largely "why can't we have a vote to get rid" much of the stuff is only about "what's in it for us" it all seems a bit selfish to me. I know that we'd be better in the South East to declare independence from the rest of the country as we would be better off and be able to retain a Tory government and be better off as a result :ooo:
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And many on the YES campaign would use your point of view to support their position.

I would suggest though that your complaint (?) that Scots voters only seem to care about "what's in it for us" - well in truth what else would you expect them to be bothered about? Some might be concerned about short term impact on their pockets; others might be concerned about Scotland's place in Europe and the world - but over the next year considerations about how Scottish independence might impact the rUK are frankly not that important to Scotland.
 
PieMan said:
Re. your first point, I can't see a problem with saying that a 'Yes' vote probably means out for good. Afterall isn't that the whole point of the independence argument? That Scotland will be better off as an independent nation, forging their own identity in the world? At some point down the line to turn round and say 'you know what, we made a bit of a mistake 'x' years ago, we're not doing as well as we first thought and we'd like to come back please' probably wouldn't be acceptable to the rest of the UK. I would also assume if that scenario ever happened, then it would be put to voters in England, Wales and NI first as to whether to admit Scotland back into the Union.
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Quite! I agree. This 'when you are out - you are out for good' point was made my the (Westminster) Scottish Secretary - I'm not sure that the BT Campaign making a big thing about the permanence of the vote next year is such a clever idea.
 
CliveW said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the last English monarch replaced by a Scottish one in 1606 leading to the United Kingdom?
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Correct. James VI of Scotland was invited to become James I of England, as he was nearest in line for the succession. The Union of England and Scotland into the United Kingdom followed on from that. It would be a pity to break it up again. :confused:
 
CliveW said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the last English monarch replaced by a Scottish one in 1606 leading to the United Kingdom?
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True, but then the Scottish monarchy effectively ceased to exist and we've had more than one diversion since then. The Hanovarians we've got running the show in England now probably wouldn't qualify as legitimate and direct descendents of the last true Scottish king.
 
cleanstrike said:
True, but then the Scottish monarchy effectively ceased to exist and we've had more than one diversion since then. The Hanovarians we've got running the show in England now probably wouldn't qualify as legitimate and direct descendents of the last true Scottish king.
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Whatever happened to the Comyns?
 
ger147 said:
Was that the Lib Dem you thought was a Tory?
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Problem with living in England is that these days LibDems and Tories are part and parcel of the same 'coalition' thing - so the fact the the coalition Scottish Secretary is a LibDem would easily evade me. Until I heard that he was the Orkney MP - so then knew he couldn't be the Tory.
 
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