• We'd like to take this opportunity to wish you a Happy Holidays and a very Merry Christmas from all at Golf Monthly. Thank you for sharing your 2025 with us!

Scottish independence

ger147 said:
Scotland and London get about the same, NI get more than anyone at over £9k.

My point is that I don't think you will ever spend the same per capita in every area of the UK. Some areas get more, some get less based on how the calculation is done and the areas are defined.

As for the argument about whether the Barnett formula is fair or not, in my own personal opinion if it is clearly demonstrated that it is not fair and there is a fairer alternative, I would not be opposed to it being changed for something else.

At the moment, there is no political consensus even within individual parties that it is either unfair or what an alternative could be.
Click to expand...

believe me - down here it doesn't matter whether or not there is political consensus on this matter at the moment. Following a NO vote the English electorate will demand a cut in the Barnett formula grant to Scotland - whether that is actually fair or not - it is very strongly perceived as by unfair. I'd like someone to tell me that the grant won't be cut - I'd rather it wasn't as I have plenty of relatives in remote places and that otherwise rely on the state - and a cut will affect them.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
believe me - down here it doesn't matter whether or not there is political consensus on this matter at the moment. Following a NO vote the English electorate will demand a cut in the Barnett formula grant to Scotland - whether that is actually fair or not - it is very strongly perceived as by unfair. I'd like someone to tell me that the grant won't be cut - I'd rather it wasn't as I have plenty of relatives in remote places and that otherwise rely on the state - and a cut will affect them.
Click to expand...

Then why hasn't it been cut already?

It's not actually subject to legislation or parliamentary approval, it's simply a convention that is adhered to by the Treasury.

The current government has stated that it will continue to use the Barnett formula as the basis for allocating funds to the 3 devolved governments of Wales, NI and Scotland.

And as I've said elsewhere, we don't know who the post-2015 government will be so we don't know what will happen after that.

P.S. How will the English electorate demand a cut? If for example Labour gets in and then refuse to change the formula, what will the English electorate do about it?
 
Last edited:
ger147 said:
Then why hasn't it been cut already?

It's not actually subject to legislation or parliamentary approval, it's simply a convention that is adhered to by the Treasury.

The current government has stated that it will continue to use the Barnett formula as the basis for allocating funds to the 3 devolved governments of Wales, NI and Scotland.

And as I've said elsewhere, we don't know who the post-2015 government will be so we don't know what will happen after that.

P.S. How will the English electorate demand a cut? If for example Labour gets in and then refuse to change the formula, what will the English electorate do about it?
Click to expand...

Because there hasn't been the political will given serious public outcry - and Labour needed the Scottish seats. Post a NO folk in England will say

'OK - you are part of the UK for good now - so if the current grant arrangements mean free prescriptions, no uni fees etc then that grant should be cut because that higher level of funding should not enable these things to be free in Scotland when they are not free in England - you want to be part of the UK - you can get a more equivalent level of funding'

I don't know that this will happen - so it's an assertion - but in truth I'm just relating what I hear being said around me in the clubhouse and elsewhere.

...and absolutely you you don't know who will be in government post 2015; and you have no idea what will be in the party manifesto's for that election; and you don't know what the heck would happen if we ended up with a Tory-UKIP coalition. But a NO vote will mean that you can't complain about Westminster making decisions that don't reflect the Scottish view and Scottish wishes; and no longer will you be able to hold as a trump card the threat of leaving the union. So be it.
 
Last edited:
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Because there hasn't been the political will given serious public outcry - and Labour needed the Scottish seats. Post a NO folk in England will say

'OK - you are part of the UK for good now - so if the current grant arrangements mean free prescriptions, no uni fees etc then that grant should be cut because that higher level of funding should not enable these things to be free in Scotland when they are not free in England - you want to be part of the UK - you can get a more equivalent level of funding'

I don't know that this will happen - so it's an assertion - but in truth I'm just relating what I hear being said around me in the clubhouse and elsewhere.
Click to expand...

You do know that while the SNP have been quite successful at dishing out the high-profile vote-grabbing policies like free prescriptions these have been funded by cuts elsewhere. For example, you are far better off if you live south of the border following a cancer diagnosis......
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
You will note that the EU representative was carefully referring to new members of the EU. You could say that Scotland is an existing member - admitted as part of the UK admission process.
Click to expand...

Well, we are at the moment anyway. :whistle:
The same bloke mentioned something about a Shengen Agreement?
Didn't hear the end of it, so have just done a bit of reading. I bet the tory's and Ukip are over the moon about the possibility that Scotland may have to sign up to this agreement. :eek:
Passport control anyone? Perhaps Wimpy's could put a quote in for finishing that wall. :D
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Because there hasn't been the political will given serious public outcry - and Labour needed the Scottish seats. Post a NO folk in England will say

'OK - you are part of the UK for good now - so if the current grant arrangements mean free prescriptions, no uni fees etc then that grant should be cut because that higher level of funding should not enable these things to be free in Scotland when they are not free in England - you want to be part of the UK - you can get a more equivalent level of funding'

I don't know that this will happen - so it's an assertion - but in truth I'm just relating what I hear being said around me in the clubhouse and elsewhere.
Click to expand...

The last election was only in 2010 and all of these things were the case back then, and there was no great groundswell of public opinion that the parties contesting the election had to address this issue in their manifestos when seeking election/re-election - and they didn't.

So on that basis, MY assertion is that nothing will change next time around either. The Conservatives have stated they will continue to use Barnett and Labour have been silent on this topic so there is no change to the political will to look at this from 2010.

I have also heard this said by some people for many years as much as I have heard the other side which is per capita income per head in Scotland is higher than England, but nothing has been done about it before and IMO I don't see it changing any time soon, unless of course there is a Yes vote in Scotland next year.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Because there hasn't been the political will given serious public outcry - and Labour needed the Scottish seats. Post a NO folk in England will say

'OK - you are part of the UK for good now - so if the current grant arrangements mean free prescriptions, no uni fees etc then that grant should be cut because that higher level of funding should not enable these things to be free in Scotland when they are not free in England - you want to be part of the UK - you can get a more equivalent level of funding'

I don't know that this will happen - so it's an assertion - but in truth I'm just relating what I hear being said around me in the clubhouse and elsewhere.

...and absolutely you you don't know who will be in government post 2015; and you have no idea what will be in the party manifesto's for that election; and you don't know what the heck would happen if we ended up with a Tory-UKIP coalition. But a NO vote will mean that you can't complain about Westminster making decisions that don't reflect the Scottish view and Scottish wishes; and no longer will you be able to hold as a trump card the threat of leaving the union. So be it.
Click to expand...

Just me personally, but I really can't see a big major outcry for this from the electorate, if a NO vote was successful.
 
blackpuddinmonster said:
Well, we are at the moment anyway. :whistle:
The same bloke mentioned something about a Shengen Agreement?
Didn't hear the end of it, so have just done a bit of reading. I bet the tory's and Ukip are over the moon about the possibility that Scotland may have to sign up to this agreement. :eek:
Passport control anyone? Perhaps Wimpy's could put a quote in for finishing that wall. :D
Click to expand...

I understood the Shengen Agreement was about no passport controls. Something we a Ireland refused to sign up to which is why other EU members are subject to less controls than us.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Because there hasn't been the political will given serious public outcry - and Labour needed the Scottish seats. Post a NO folk in England will say

'OK - you are part of the UK for good now - so if the current grant arrangements mean free prescriptions, no uni fees etc then that grant should be cut because that higher level of funding should not enable these things to be free in Scotland when they are not free in England - you want to be part of the UK - you can get a more equivalent level of funding'

I don't know that this will happen - so it's an assertion - but in truth I'm just relating what I hear being said around me in the clubhouse and elsewhere.

...and absolutely you you don't know who will be in government post 2015; and you have no idea what will be in the party manifesto's for that election; and you don't know what the heck would happen if we ended up with a Tory-UKIP coalition. But a NO vote will mean that you can't complain about Westminster making decisions that don't reflect the Scottish view and Scottish wishes; and no longer will you be able to hold as a trump card the threat of leaving the union. So be it.
Click to expand...

One additional point as you edited your post after I replied:

To my knowledge, a majority of the people of Scotland have never been in favour of or threatened to leave the union. It's the SNP's raison d'etre but not the view or will of the majority of Scots. And I have a feeling that will be confirmed next September.
 
ger147 said:
Why would Scotland HAVE to sign up to it if Ireland were able to refuse?
Click to expand...

No idea mate, just asking a question myself. This EU bloke was going on about what any new members were expected to sign up to.
I guess if Slh is correct then no worries, but if things change in the near future, ie we leave, where does that leave things? :confused:
 
blackpuddinmonster said:
No idea mate, just asking a question myself. This EU bloke was going on about what any new members were expected to sign up to.
I guess if Slh is correct then no worries, but if things change in the near future, ie we leave, where does that leave things? :confused:
Click to expand...

If there is a Yes vote that is when the negotiations would begin, and like most negotiations there would be trade offs etc.

But these negotiations will not take place unless there is a Yes vote so if/until that happens, no-one knows...
 
FairwayDodger said:
You do know that while the SNP have been quite successful at dishing out the high-profile vote-grabbing policies like free prescriptions these have been funded by cuts elsewhere. For example, you are far better off if you live south of the border following a cancer diagnosis......
Click to expand...

No I didn't know that (though I have heard it said) - and neither will most English. Unfortunately that sort of sensible rationale will fall on the deaf ears of many. All we see is that Scotland has FREE Prescriptions, FREE university; FREE elderly care - and HIGHER per head public funding. These are all highly contentious issues in their own right and seeing Scots getting them FREE goes down like a bucket of...

This is how it is.
 
ger147 said:
To my knowledge, a majority of the people of Scotland have never been in favour of or threatened to leave the union. It's the SNP's raison d'etre but not the view or will of the majority of Scots. And I have a feeling that will be confirmed next September.
Click to expand...

No - but it's been a perception down south that Scotland might well do - and to that many have said hurrah - but they've let wait and see what happens. Maybe Scots need to ask themselves why so many English would vote for Scotland to leave :)

I suspect you are correct and the vote will be NO. I'd just like to understand more about the 'what then?'
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Slab
Online Shopping
2 3
Replies
56
Views
1K
irip
I
Kennysarmy
Any used car guys on here?
2
Replies
23
Views
1K
Bunkermagnet
Bunkermagnet
N
Intelligent Golf / Club Systems Mobile App Merger
2
Replies
21
Views
2K
jim8flog
jim8flog
E
Booking away abroad
Replies
2
Views
581
stymied
S
Crazyface
Train Tickets
Replies
1
Views
176
Lord Tyrion
Lord Tyrion
Top