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Scottish independence

I personally hope Scotland stays as part of the union, I believe in Britain, the good and the bad. I haven't read up enough on the subject enough to form opinions on finances etc, but I would be interested to know if Scotland gained independence, how do you think the Scottish political landscape will be?


I dont like the tories as much as the next man, and I know they rarely win any seats in Scottish constituencies, which I think is one of the reasons behind feeling, you have no voice in the UK parliament, as it is not representative of your voting patterns.


I believe the SNP is left leaning, the liberals (well), the tories are virtually non-existent, and the Labour party more than holds its own.


If Scotland gained independence, 20 years down the line will you have had 20 years of labour governments? Will the SNP no longer exist, as their overall remit has been delivered. Will marginal parties come to the fore. Will the Liberal and right wing voters club together and form right leaning coalition governmants, especially if the first 10 years dont go well, and a cost-cutting "bailing out" options are seen to be needed, even by the masses.


Thoughts?
 
harpo_72 said:
Apparently they want the BBC still and the pound... Independence is independence, you do it your self,you do your own dirty laundry as well.

By the way, why are the English not casting a vote on this, after all it is our possession :whistle: ... I'll get my coat now.
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That would be 8.3% our BBC transferred into Scotland's SBS. [you may keep Eastenders if you can still afford to make it]
OOR pound as well as yours. You keep the pound and you keep our share of the debt.
Are you aware that we own 8.3% of British assets which will have to be negotiated away.
That is Buckingham Palace/MI5/World Embassies/Portsmouth dockyard etc etc etc etc.
 
Doon frae Troon said:
That would be 8.3% our BBC transferred into Scotland's SBS. [you may keep Eastenders if you can still afford to make it]
OOR pound as well as yours. You keep the pound and you keep our share of the debt.
Are you aware that we own 8.3% of British assets which will have to be negotiated away.
That is Buckingham Palace/MI5/World Embassies/Portsmouth dockyard etc etc etc etc.
Click to expand...

North Sea oil ?? :whistle:

A few things i can't quite fathom.
Mr. Salmond says he wants to keep the pound, yet the EU says all new members must adopt the Euro.
Mr. Salmond also wants to be a member of Nato, a nuclear alliance, yet wants nothing to do with nuclear weapons.
Can anyone shed some light please?
 
blackpuddinmonster said:
North Sea oil ?? :whistle:

A few things i can't quite fathom.
Mr. Salmond says he wants to keep the pound, yet the EU says all new members must adopt the Euro.
Mr. Salmond also wants to be a member of Nato, a nuclear alliance, yet wants nothing to do with nuclear weapons.
Can anyone shed some light please?
Click to expand...

Foe NATO think Swedish!

North Sea Oil........not much owned by the British......piplines and.....
Europe/Euro thing seems to have been straightened out.....
 
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I realise that most NATO countries have no nuclear capability, but, god forbid, there is ever a war, what happens if Nato need scottish airfields/ports to move nuclear ordanance, refuel nuclear bombers, resuply submarines etc?? Surely if your in, your in ?

I heard on the news last night from some EU bloke, that the matter of the Euro was still to be negotiated, as Scotland didn't have indipendance yet so nothing had actually gone through the EU Parliament.
 
blackpuddinmonster said:
I realise that most NATO countries have no nuclear capability, but, god forbid, there is ever a war, what happens if Nato need scottish airfields/ports to move nuclear ordanance, refuel nuclear bombers, resuply submarines etc?? Surely if your in, your in ?

I heard on the news last night from some EU bloke, that the matter of the Euro was still to be negotiated, as Scotland didn't have indipendance yet so nothing had actually gone through the EU Parliament.
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You will note that the EU representative was carefully referring to new members of the EU. You could say that Scotland is an existing member - admitted as part of the UK admission process.

On the NATO front - I think that it is reasonable to expect total flexibility on the part of a Scottish government in the event of a nuclear escalation or conflict that puts Scotland or it's interests at risk and that makes Scotland strategically crucial (i.e. with Russia - and risk of that being disappearingly small I suggest).
 
Did I see you getting a comment posted on the BBC website during the live feed yesterday, Mr Hogan?

Or is there another outraged disenfranchised ex-pat Scot in Farnham? :D
 
FairwayDodger said:
Did I see you getting a comment posted on the BBC website during the live feed yesterday, Mr Hogan?

Or is there another outraged disenfranchised ex-pat Scot in Farnham? :D
Click to expand...

Wisnae me - there's another is there?

Did I earlier hear Cameron tell the HoC that - never mind uncertainties around NATO, EU, Sterling etc - independence would result in an increase in taxation of Scots and other residents of Scotland of £1000 per head a year. REALLY - did I mishear? Is that all?

Because given that the per head grant is currently £1600 per head per year greater than that for England - then as I have suggested a NO will result in a significant cut in that grant. And if grant cut is such that Scots get only £600 per head greater than England - then to maintain current level of services in Scotland that effectively would require a £1000 increase in tax due to a NO vote. So either way - YES or NO - Scots might face a £1000 increase in tax to maintain current levels of services.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Wisnae me - there's another is there?
Click to expand...

Found it......!

Robert Rutherford from Farnham, England emails: I was born in Scotland but have lived in England for almost 50 years. I do not want to be regarded as a Scottish citizen if the independence vote is yes; unless I've had a chance to vote in this referendum. Of course I am not being offered that opportunity but I would vote no to this stupid and self aggrandising initiative from Salmond
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It did surprise me...... I have you down as a "yes" ;)
 
It's not exactly equal across England as a whole either - some interesting figures...

Although not subject to the Barnett formula, there are significant variations in identifiable spending between the regions of England:

  • North East £8,177 – 111% of UK average identifiable expenditure
  • North West £7,798 – 106%
  • Yorkshire and Humberside £7,188 – 98%
  • East Midlands £6,491 – 88%
  • West Midlands £7,065 – 96%
  • Eastern £6,144 – 83%
  • London £8,404 – 114%
  • South East £6,304 – 86%
  • South West £6,677 – 91%
 
ger147 said:
It's not exactly equal across England as a whole either - some interesting figures...

Although not subject to the Barnett formula, there are significant variations in identifiable spending between the regions of England:

  • North East £8,177 – 111% of UK average identifiable expenditure
  • North West £7,798 – 106%
  • Yorkshire and Humberside £7,188 – 98%
  • East Midlands £6,491 – 88%
  • West Midlands £7,065 – 96%
  • Eastern £6,144 – 83%
  • London £8,404 – 114%
  • South East £6,304 – 86%
  • South West £6,677 – 91%
Click to expand...


And so how very useful for levelling up these figures will be that cut in the Scottish grant!
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Is that not the point. Sweden has a sophisticated armed forces - and would an independent nuclear free Scotland be more at risk from nuclear attack than Sweden?
Click to expand...


I don't think that was the point Doon was trying to make TBH & the answer to your question is that no one can answer it, it would be a guess.
 
stevie_r said:
I don't think that was the point Doon was trying to make TBH & the answer to your question is that no one can answer it, it would be a guess.
Click to expand...

Just about everything is a best guess. There is very little actual that can be said today about an independent Scotland as Scotland is not independent. The BT Campaign say everything in the White Paper is an assertion - well of course everything is an assertion - what else could it be? Nobody knows what the world is going to be like in 2016, so why should I be surprised that Wee Eck and Daphne were unable to provide me with any absolute certainties about Scotland in 2016. After all for instance - rUK might have decided to leave the EU by then :)
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
And so how very useful for levelling up these figures will be that cut in the Scottish grant!
Click to expand...

Scotland and London get about the same, NI get more than anyone at over £9k.

My point is that I don't think you will ever spend the same per capita in every area of the UK. Some areas get more, some get less based on how the calculation is done and the areas are defined.

As for the argument about whether the Barnett formula is fair or not, in my own personal opinion if it is clearly demonstrated that it is not fair and there is a fairer alternative, I would not be opposed to it being changed for something else.

At the moment, there is no political consensus even within individual parties that it is either unfair or what an alternative could be.
 
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