Scotland Debate

[Adi2Dassler]

Sorry what did Barroso say about EU membership for an independent Scotland?

Barroso said 'it would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, for an independent Scotland to join the European Union'.

Now, if you don't think that is 100% guff I'm not going to debate this with you anymore.Read it again, because that's what he said, word for word, to Andrew Marr.So not only would we have to apply, it would be 'extremely difficult, if not impossible' for Scotland to join.

And what happened the day or so after this interview?Cameron endorses Barosso to be secretary general of NATO.A co-incidence, I'd expect.Nothing more.

 

[FairwayDodger]

The whole issue as to whether we remain EU citizens or not is similar to a query I have about British citizenship.

Socially, culturally etc, I'm British. I'm also Scottish but I strongly identify as British and I can't see my feelings on that changing.

So if Scotland does vote for independence do I lose my British citizenship or do I have the option to retain it? What about English, Welsh, N Irish who reside in Scotland? Should those groups be treated in the same way?

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Barroso said 'it would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, for an independent Scotland to join the European Union'.

Now, if you don't think that is 100% guff I'm not going to debate this with you anymore.Read it again, because that's what he said, word for word, to Andrew Marr.So not only would we have to apply, it would be 'extremely difficult, if not impossible' for Scotland to join.

And what happened the day or so after this interview?Cameron endorses Barosso to be secretary general of NATO.A co-incidence, I'd expect.Nothing more.

What is there to discuss?

It is pointless as anything or anyone you disagree with is dismissed as guff or talking guff.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

So have people said it will be no problem for an Independent Scotland to join their organisation ?

NATO ? UN? The EU ?

I'm guessing that there must be for people to suggest it's a matter of fact that Scotland will join the relevant organisations ?

Not sure how anyone can say what "will" happen - surely it's just what they "want" to happen

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Barroso said 'it would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, for an independent Scotland to join the European Union'.

Now, if you don't think that is 100% guff I'm not going to debate this with you anymore.Read it again, because that's what he said, word for word, to Andrew Marr.So not only would we have to apply, it would be 'extremely difficult, if not impossible' for Scotland to join.

And what happened the day or so after this interview?Cameron endorses Barosso to be secretary general of NATO.A co-incidence, I'd expect.Nothing more.

Of course an independent Scotland would be able to join - if not at first then in the not too distant future. For BT or Barroso to suggest otherwise is just seriously disingenuous.

 

[MegaSteve]

I remain puzzled... The Scots wish away from a 'remote dictatorship' yet wish to remain signed up to a 'remote dictatorship'...

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I remain puzzled... The Scots wish away from a 'remote dictatorship' yet wish to remain signed up to a 'remote dictatorship'...

We don't need to question what they want - if they decide that the sub-optimal form of independence on offer is good enough - then that is up to them. If they get it they will seek to develop it from sub-optimal form towards optimal form.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

What is there to discuss?

It is pointless as anything or anyone you disagree with is dismissed as guff or talking guff.

So when presented with what was actually said you refuse to concede guff was talked.Well done you.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

So when presented with what was actually said you refuse to concede guff was talked.Well done you.

Surely it's just opinion if what he said was "guff" or not - MM doesn't have to concede anything.

You have just dismissed what was said as guff so what's the point in MM discussing anything with you when you have closed your opinion. Anytime anything that is said that appears negatively towards a yes vote it is immediately dismissed as "guff" - you have made your mind up - is the yes vote and nothing will change that.

 

[Foxholer]

There is no document between Scotland and any international body, except maybe, the commonwealth.We'll be welcomed in to the sound of the skirl into The UN,EU and any other body we decide we'd like to join.

So you were guff-ing then! And, more than likely guff-ing again!

So when presented with what was actually said you refuse to concede guff was talked.Well done you.

Well, unless you can prove what Barrossa was guff, his opinion is just as valid as yours - and has a bit more authority! Whether he's believable is up to the individual. Remember the Preparation for Nuclear Attack drills!

 

[Val]

The whole issue as to whether we remain EU citizens or not is similar to a query I have about British citizenship.

Socially, culturally etc, I'm British. I'm also Scottish but I strongly identify as British and I can't see my feelings on that changing.

So if Scotland does vote for independence do I lose my British citizenship or do I have the option to retain it? What about English, Welsh, N Irish who reside in Scotland? Should those groups be treated in the same way?

This is a big big thing and appears to have either been missed or no one else thinks it a big thing. I know someone who is Scottish living in Europe (all be it temporarily) working for the British Government, if she loses her British Citizenship to become Scottish she may lose her job.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

This is a big big thing and appears to have either been missed or no one else thinks it a big thing. I know someone who is Scottish living in Europe (all be it temporarily) working for the British Government, if she loses her British Citizenship to become Scottish she may lose her job.

There a thousands of Scots working for the British Government in many areas - Military , Police , MoD , etc - what happens with them ?

 

[FairwayDodger]

There a thousands of Scots working for the British Government in many areas - Military , Police , MoD , etc - what happens with them ?

Exactly, and many more living outside Scotland. Will SILH require a visa to remain in England?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Exactly, and many more living outside Scotland. Will SILH require a visa to remain in England?

The question is do they want Scotland to be Independant ? Because they don't get a chance to vote I believe.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

There a thousands of Scots working for the British Government in many areas - Military , Police , MoD , etc - what happens with them ?

I am not aware of any requirement for someone to be a British citizen if they are to be employed by the UK Government. Nepalese Gurkhas serve in the British Army and both in this country and overseas foreign nationals are directly or indirectly employed by our Government.

 

[Val]

There a thousands of Scots working for the British Government in many areas - Military , Police , MoD , etc - what happens with them ?

Along with who starts the Scottish Army, would a 20+ years RSM want to leave the British Army and join the Scottish Army?

I know I wouldn't.

 

[Val]

I am not aware of any requirement for someone to be a British citizen if they are to be employed by the UK Government. Nepalese Gurkhas serve in the British Army and both in this country and overseas foreign nationals are directly or indirectly employed by our Government.

It's a fair point but I can only post the concerns of someone in that position.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I am not aware of any requirement for someone to be a British citizen if they are to be employed by the UK Government. Nepalese Gurkhas serve in the British Army and both in this country and overseas foreign nationals are directly or indirectly employed by our Government.

Certain Commonwealth countries have alliances ( if that's the right word ) that allow them to join the military dating back centuries I believe. But I'm not sure if they need a British Passport or not

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Along with who starts the Scottish Army, would a 20+ years RSM want to leave the British Army and join the Scottish Army?

I know I wouldn't.

Can't see many wanting to leave tbh

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

This is a big big thing and appears to have either been missed or no one else thinks it a big thing. I know someone who is Scottish living in Europe (all be it temporarily) working for the British Government, if she loses her British Citizenship to become Scottish she may lose her job.

Not if in the handover from Westminster to Scotland Westminster agrees that all employees can as it were be TUPE'd - so as employees they move from working for the UK to working for Scotland - but still delivering the same 'service' to the UK as they were doing. Besides - am I a citizen under the Crown or Westminster? If the former then nothing changes - perhaps.