Scotland Debate

[Val]

Does the referendum bill not require Westminster to work with Scotland to deliver Plan A if that is what Scotland wants?

I've no idea if im honest

 

[ger147]

Does the referendum bill not require Westminster to work with Scotland to deliver Plan A if that is what Scotland wants?

No, it doesn't.

 

[Val]

...and if Scotland is removed from the UK equation is there not a case for the rUK having to be reassessed for membership. After all the rUK is not the UK - different country.

Thats what I said

And on the EU matter - untangling Scotland from the EU legislation and redrafting all the legislation for to cover the rUK rather than the UK is going to be a mighty job. So as Scotland will eventually (if not immediately) become part of the EU why would the EU want to go through the pain of Scottish disentanglement - just to go through bringing them onboard at a later date. There seems to be a need for a little bit of realism on the part of the anti-Scotland EU brigade.

Absolutely, the main point though is that this scenario for better words is what "should" happen, however we all know what should and what do can be two polar opposites.

 

[Val]

The issue of whether rUK would cease to be a member of EU if Scotland was deemed a 'new country' does not appear to have been addressed by any politicians. It seems such an important issue that I'm certain it has already been cleared. If it hasn't been, then I'm equally certain that all the Pro Europe guys in Westminster would be kicking up a huge fuss about Scotland's Independence causing rUK's departure and therefore ALL of UK should be entitled to vote in Scotland's Referendum - as it affects rUK's EU status!

The SNP's view/gamble is that EU membership would be retained, but this is by no means certain - and the implication is that it would be 'difficult'!

Remember though, that the Referendum is not deciding on the mechanics - or timeframe, merely on the Policy.

Exactly, but Alex Salmond is portraying the view that it is certain despite reservations from Westminster and the EU.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

If the EU do not accept an iScotland then iScotland could take the case to the European Human Rights Court.

 

[One Planer]

If the EU do not accept an iScotland then iScotland could take the case to the European Human Rights Court.

On what grounds (....Curious)?

 

[Val]

If the EU do not accept an iScotland then iScotland could take the case to the European Human Rights Court.

I'll assume that's a tongue in cheek comment.

 

[MegaSteve]

On what grounds (....Curious)?

I am more curious as to what is desirable about EU membership...

Don't wish to be 'bossed' by Westminster but quite happy to let Bruselles have their say...

 

[Foxholer]

If the EU do not accept an iScotland then iScotland could take the case to the European Human Rights Court.

Although tongue in cheek, I presume, it's worth noting that if the EU don't accept iScotland - and acceptance has to be unanimous - there's little iScotland could do about it!

So the rUK could throw the toys out of the pram and veto entry!

 

[CMAC]

If the EU do not accept an iScotland then iScotland could take the case to the European Human Rights Court.

on the "they're no letting me play with them" grounds I assume?

 

[FairwayDodger]

Although tongue in cheek, I presume, it's worth noting that if the EU don't accept iScotland - and acceptance has to be unanimous - there's little iScotland could do about it!

So the rUK could throw the toys out of the pram and veto entry!

Assuming rUK got in? Not even sure they'd bother reapplying......

 

[MegaSteve]

Assuming rUK got in? Not even sure they'd bother reapplying......

Hopefully not... But they will...
Bruselles provides a huge safety net [gravy train] for the political classes and they won't give up on that too easily...

 

[Foxholer]

Assuming rUK got in? Not even sure they'd bother reapplying......

Well, 'stayed' in.

As I posted earlier, that was surely checked out early on in the process. But would avoid the rUK referendum on staying in. There would have been a lot of noise otherwise, both from the pro and con Europe guys and everyone that objects to the concept of Scotland controlling rUK's membership - without anyone in rUK having a vote on it!

 

[Hobbit]

The EU will welcome an independEnt Scotland with open arms! All that Scottish revenue heading for Brussels.... wonder how much of a contribution they'll ask for?

 

[Val]

Well, 'stayed' in.

As I posted earlier, that was surely checked out early on in the process. But would avoid the rUK referendum on staying in. There would have been a lot of noise otherwise, both from the pro and con Europe guys and everyone that objects to the concept of Scotland controlling rUK's membership - without anyone in rUK having a vote on it!

Im certain DC wouldn't have agreed to an independence referendum in Scotland had there been jeopardy in EU membership

 

[Adi2Dassler]

Not sure why anyone would think that comment was tongue in cheek?Scotland are looking for independence from The UK, not the EU.We are members and have been since 74?We've contributed financially,artistically and emotionally in the whole thing, so if I'm told I'm no longer allowed to travel and work in the EU because Scotland has removed itself (democratically) from The UK, with the explicit endorsement from The UK via The Edinburgh Agreement, I'd expect folk would look to take their case to the human rights board.

 

[Val]

Not sure why anyone would think that comment was tongue in cheek?Scotland are looking for independence from The UK, not the EU.We are members and have been since 74?We've contributed financially,artistically and emotionally in the whole thing, so if I'm told I'm no longer allowed to travel and work in the EU because Scotland has removed itself (democratically) from The UK, with the explicit endorsement from The UK via The Edinburgh Agreement, I'd expect folk would look to take their case to the human rights board.

So how can you appeal to the European Courts if you are not an EU member?

But going back to being a member since '74, this is where we've heard nothing definitive. Are all current union countries members of the EU are is it the Union? It's all assumption right now from the YES campaign and until someone says something definitive otherwise then you cannot base anything on assumption.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Although tongue in cheek, I presume, it's worth noting that if the EU don't accept iScotland - and acceptance has to be unanimous - there's little iScotland could do about it!

So the rUK could throw the toys out of the pram and veto entry!

They could indeed - but as for many aspects of an iScotland working with a rUK following a YES, this action would hardly be conducive to establishing a harmonious relationship between two countries having many economic interdependencies. I would have thought that it would be in the interests of any rUK government to use all reasonable endeavours to help Scotland to transition to a stable and economically sound and stable country - and so to help in whatever way it could rather than hinder. Blocking Scotland's entry to the EU 'just for the hell of it' or indeed even for possibly good reasons from a broader EU perspective, would seem to be rather contrary and not particularly to the benefit of the rUK.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Well, 'stayed' in.

As I posted earlier, that was surely checked out early on in the process. But would avoid the rUK referendum on staying in. There would have been a lot of noise otherwise, both from the pro and con Europe guys and everyone that objects to the concept of Scotland controlling rUK's membership - without anyone in rUK having a vote on it!

Have you heard Cameron tell us that rUK membership of the EU would be unaffected by Scotland getting kicked out of / removing itself from, the EU. I haven't?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Not sure why anyone would think that comment was tongue in cheek?Scotland are looking for independence from The UK, not the EU.We are members and have been since 74?We've contributed financially,artistically and emotionally in the whole thing, so if I'm told I'm no longer allowed to travel and work in the EU because Scotland has removed itself (democratically) from The UK, with the explicit endorsement from The UK via The Edinburgh Agreement, I'd expect folk would look to take their case to the human rights board.

So if I were living in Scotland the removal of my right to free movement and employment within the EU - through no action or fault of my own - hmmm. And all those EU residents wishing to move to Scotland but no longer having the right to do so under EU law? Can of worms.