Scotland Debate

[Foxholer]

Not sure why anyone would think that comment was tongue in cheek?Scotland are looking for independence from The UK, not the EU.We are members and have been since 74?We've contributed financially,artistically and emotionally in the whole thing, so if I'm told I'm no longer allowed to travel and work in the EU because Scotland has removed itself (democratically) from The UK, with the explicit endorsement from The UK via The Edinburgh Agreement, I'd expect folk would look to take their case to the human rights board.

On what basis? You've already stated that everything was done on a Democratic basis. It's no different from reducing entry rights, for aliens, from Grandparent to Parent basis! And you don't get HR cases for that!

If you hadn't realised that loss of EU status, should it happen, was meaningless, then you are sorely mistaken!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

So how can you appeal to the European Courts if you are not an EU member?

But going back to being a member since '74, this is where we've heard nothing definitive. Are all current union countries members of the EU are is it the Union? It's all assumption right now from the YES campaign and until someone says something definitive otherwise then you cannot base anything on assumption.

ECHR have nothing to do with the EU - citizens of all countries being members of the Council of Europe have access to it - and iScotland will be a member of the CoE

 

[Val]

They could indeed - but as for many aspects of an iScotland working with a rUK following a YES, this action would hardly be conducive to establishing a harmonious relationship between two countries having many economic interdependencies. I would have thought that it would be in the interests of any rUK government to use all reasonable endeavours to help Scotland to transition to a stable and economically sound and stable country - and so to help in whatever way it could rather than hinder. Blocking Scotland's entry to the EU 'just for the hell of it' or indeed even for possibly good reasons from a broader EU perspective, would seem to be rather contrary and not particularly to the benefit of the rUK.

In reality this will all happen post a YES vote but it won't stop the NO campaign saying these are all stumbling blocks that will be difficult to overcome as part of a YES vote in an effort to up the ante for the NO campaign.

 

[FairwayDodger]

Anyway, it's not rUK that would veto Scottish membership in the EU; it's Spain.

 

[Val]

ECHR have nothing to do with the EU

Hence the smilie

 

[Val]

Anyway, it's not rUK that would veto Scottish membership in the EU; it's Spain.

At least

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

At least

A new form of membership would be created for an iScotland - after all there is no precedent. Scotland's application would be the opportunity for the EU to draft words that allow for a new state ceding from it's original member state with the agreement and support of the latter to join - whilst at the same time making it harder for new states ceding where that is opposed by the original member state to join.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

Anyway, it's not rUK that would veto Scottish membership in the EU; it's Spain.

At least

I'll bet both of you £100 each to your chosen charity NO country vetoes Scotland joining the EU.

What happens to the thousands and thousands of europeans living and working in Scotland already?

 

[Foxholer]

ECHR have nothing to do with the EU - citizens of all countries being members of the Council of Europe have access to it - and iScotland will be a member of the CoE

Not quite right!

EU is slowly but inexorably heading towards accession to the Convention on Human Rights, there are a few major steps to go yet.

But ECHR is certainly not subject to EU control etc.

iScotland would, of course, have to sign up to the Convention, just as the likes of Russia, Ukraine, Georgia ex USSR did.

 

[FairwayDodger]

I'll bet both of you £100 each to your chosen charity NO country vetoes Scotland joining the EU.

What happens to the thousands and thousands of europeans living and working in Scotland already?

You're just getting silly now. Anyway, it's already a much bigger gamble than £100.

Truthfully, I agree with you it's pretty unlikely any country will go as far as vetoing membership. Spain will, however, make the whole process as painful as possible.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

On what grounds (....Curious)?

They are all being beastly towards us.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

You're just getting silly now. Anyway, it's already a much bigger gamble than £100.

Truthfully, I agree with you it's pretty unlikely any country will go as far as vetoing membership. Spain will, however, make the whole process as painful as possible.

Spain will do absolutely nothing except welcome us (if we decide to join) with open arms.

 

[FairwayDodger]

Spain will do absolutely nothing except welcome us (if we decide to join) with open arms.

No, they won't.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

No, they won't.

@Adi will bet you they do

I tell you guaranteed that a form of membership or words will be created that enables Scotland to join the EU that assuages the fears of Spain over the Catalans and the Basques. And it will be to do with maintenance of harmonious relationship between separated parties - after all who invites to your party the couple who have just undergone or are going through a very acrimonious divorce and are battling things out in the courts. They can come to your party as soon as both parties have comes to terms with their divorce and can demonstrate that they can be in the same room together and not fight and squabble and spoil the party for everyone else.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

No, they won't.

Yes,they will.

Attempting to compare Scotland with Catalonia or the Basque region is foolish.Scotland is a recognised country, individual members of the Commonwealth,sporting bodies like UEFA and FIFA.We are not a region, and people should note that whenever the Spanish PM talks on the subject, he always refers to regions, not countries.And that's his get out.

And don't forget, Scotland would be contributors to the EU pot, unlike Spain who are,if I'm not mistaken, receive more than they contribute.Germany/France will spread the word, that their friends from Scotland are good members.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

No one will know what the EU members will vote if Scotland asked to be a member of the EU

Nothing can be guaranteed

Lots of people stating lots of things that "will" happen as if it's a fact and a guarantee when it's not

 

[Foxholer]

No, they won't.

According to John Swinney...

"The Spanish Foreign Minister said if there is an agreed process within the United Kingdom by which Scotland becomes an independent country then Spain has nothing to say about the whole issue."

But he's a little biased!

 

[FairwayDodger]

Yes,they will.

Attempting to compare Scotland with Catalonia or the Basque region is foolish.Scotland is a recognised country, individual members of the Commonwealth,sporting bodies like UEFA and FIFA.We are not a region, and people should note that whenever the Spanish PM talks on the subject, he always refers to regions, not countries.And that's his get out.

And don't forget, Scotland would be contributors to the EU pot, unlike Spain who are,if I'm not mistaken, receive more than they contribute.Germany/France will spread the word, that their friends from Scotland are good members.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Fortunately, we'll never find out the answer.....

 

[Val]

I'll bet both of you £100 each to your chosen charity NO country vetoes Scotland joining the EU.

What happens to the thousands and thousands of europeans living and working in Scotland already?

I'm inclined to take that vote as I don't think we'll get a yes vote anyway

However I don't gamble on politics

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Yes, I can just see the EU throwing out it's richest oil producing country, that makes a lot of sense.

We had Sturgeon going head to head with Lamount on an STV debate tonight.

Absolutely awful, they should both hang their heads in shame.
Both talking over each other like a couple of demented fishwifes.
Nothing to report as I could not hear a word either were saying.