Scotland Debate

[Adi2Dassler]

As to independence, is there anything in the debate that the YES campaign might not get that would be a deal breaker for you not to vote YES?

No.I'm only looking for a YES victory, nothing more.I have an opinion on currency/Europe/Nato/welfare/defence etc, and very little is in common with The SNP, but in reality, it's all window dressing, all transient jam tomorrow stuff that in the grand scheme of Nation building is unimportant.

I want to live in a country that represents itself internationally, that elects people that reflects our society and make decisions for our benefit.Right now, and i'm sure no one would disagree,Scotland is not accurately reflected by Westminster politiking and with the dramatic change in Labour policy, we never will be again.

If you're interested, Patrick Harvie would be the man I put in charge of Scotland tomorrow, the guy is head and shoulders above ANY politician in Scotland imo.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

Here's a few links to pages that reflect what I'd like Scotland to look like

http://www.allofusfirst.org/

http://reidfoundation.org/

http://nationalcollective.com/

http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/

The Mondragon collective of Northern Spain is a perfect example of where I'd take guidance from, along with Germanic worker involvement...I can't ever see a situation in England where anything like any of the above is possible, but i can in Scotland, and I'd imagine there is plenty folk living in England who'd like to be involved in a new Scottish nation, and they'd be most welcome

 

[Val]

No.I'm only looking for a YES victory, nothing more.I have an opinion on currency/Europe/Nato/welfare/defence etc, and very little is in common with The SNP, but in reality, it's all window dressing, all transient jam tomorrow stuff that in the grand scheme of Nation building is unimportant.

I want to live in a country that represents itself internationally, that elects people that reflects our society and make decisions for our benefit.Right now, and i'm sure no one would disagree,Scotland is not accurately reflected by Westminster politiking and with the dramatic change in Labour policy, we never will be again.

If you're interested, Patrick Harvie would be the man I put in charge of Scotland tomorrow, the guy is head and shoulders above ANY politician in Scotland imo.

Interesting, I've a mate who says exactly the same as you just did and I called him a fantasy voter as he is looking for something not on offer, but understand the sentiment in regards of proper representation at international levels etc. I don't by the unelected government in Scotland thing as we are part of the UK and the system is what it is as part of the union, the south didn't make this comment when we had a labour government.

As much as I'd love an independent Scotland I cannot see anything the yes campaign have on offer which will come to fruition that would sway me to them, right now I'm in the NO camp.

 

[SocketRocket]

No.I'm only looking for a YES victory, nothing more.I have an opinion on currency/Europe/Nato/welfare/defence etc, and very little is in common with The SNP, but in reality, it's all window dressing, all transient jam tomorrow stuff that in the grand scheme of Nation building is unimportant.

I want to live in a country that represents itself internationally, that elects people that reflects our society and make decisions for our benefit.Right now, and i'm sure no one would disagree,Scotland is not accurately reflected by Westminster politiking and with the dramatic change in Labour policy, we never will be again.

If you're interested, Patrick Harvie would be the man I put in charge of Scotland tomorrow, the guy is head and shoulders above ANY politician in Scotland imo.

There are a lot of Scotts in Parliament. I guess if you cannot accept Scotland in the UK parliament as a proportional part of one Nation then you should vote 'Yes'. On the other side of the case is the fact that Scottish MPs can vote on matters that only affect England but English MPs cannot do the same on Scottish matters. Maybe a better system would be for all the countries of the Union to have parliaments that decide their own issues within their budgets and sit together on National issues only.

 

[NWJocko]

No.I'm only looking for a YES victory, nothing more.I have an opinion on currency/Europe/Nato/welfare/defence etc, and very little is in common with The SNP, but in reality, it's all window dressing, all transient jam tomorrow stuff that in the grand scheme of Nation building is unimportant.

I want to live in a country that represents itself internationally, that elects people that reflects our society and make decisions for our benefit.Right now, and i'm sure no one would disagree,Scotland is not accurately reflected by Westminster politiking and with the dramatic change in Labour policy, we never will be again.

If you're interested, Patrick Harvie would be the man I put in charge of Scotland tomorrow, the guy is head and shoulders above ANY politician in Scotland imo.

As I've said previously I like your views on what a Scotland could look like....

As you're not aligned with SNP, do you think an independent Scotland would/could move away from them as the ruling party in time? Or are the majority of yes voters more aligned to SNP than yourself and tied to them as the "way forward" do you think?

 

[Val]

There are a lot of Scotts in Parliament. I guess if you cannot accept Scotland in the UK parliament as a proportional part of one Nation then you should vote 'Yes'. On the other side of the case is the fact that Scottish MPs can vote on matters that only affect England but English MPs cannot do the same. Maybe a better system would be for all the countries of the Union to have parliaments that decide their own issues within their budgets and sit together on National issues only.

Like what Scotland, Wales and Ireland already have

It's just the English that miss out on this, I see no reason why this can't/shouldn't change

 

[Val]

As I've said previously I like your views on what a Scotland could look like....

As you're not aligned with SNP, do you think an independent Scotland would/could move away from them as the ruling party in time? Or are the majority of yes voters more aligned to SNP than yourself and tied to them as the "way forward" do you think?

I don't think that in the event of a YES vote the SNP would be voted as the party of power when the election comes around, they might become by default and novelty but I cannot see it long term.

What would they be called post YES?

 

[Adi2Dassler]

As much as I'd love an independent Scotland I cannot see anything the yes campaign have on offer which will come to fruition that would sway me to them, right now I'm in the NO camp.

My advice would be ignore both the yes and no campaign.Whatever way Scotland goes in September we'll be financially viable, we'll be safe in our beds and the rain will fall in July.It's not about what the yes camp can offer to sway you, its about what Scottish folk can offer each other, about looking out for each other and taking a degree of pride in being represented and responsible for our actions, domestically and internationally.

I cannae wait.

 

[NWJocko]

I don't think that in the event of a YES vote the SNP would be voted as the party of power when the election comes around, they might become by default and novelty but I cannot see it long term.

What would they be called post YES?

Who would be? Labour?

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Just watched Patrick Harvie on the Kelso TV debate.
Totally agree with you Adi, Salmond should parachute him into his cabinet.
Decent show by Hosie for the SNP against some pretty hostile questioning.
Ruth Davidson always looks like she is sucking a lemon and the Labour MSP seemed totally out of her depth.
I cannot understand how the Tories and Labour seem to have given up any hope of power in Scotland. They could not even respond when asked by an audience member what they would do if they were in power after a yes vote

Looked like a 50/50 audience and a lively debate.


PS Patrick Harvie is Green

 

[FairwayDodger]

If you're interested, Patrick Harvie would be the man I put in charge of Scotland tomorrow, the guy is head and shoulders above ANY politician in Scotland imo.

Now that is something we can agree on. I do wonder if the yes campaign would fare better with Patrick in charge rather than the odious salmond. Fortunately we'll never find out!

 

[Val]

My advice would be ignore both the yes and no campaign.Whatever way Scotland goes in September we'll be financially viable, we'll be safe in our beds and the rain will fall in July.It's not about what the yes camp can offer to sway you, its about what Scottish folk can offer each other, about looking out for each other and taking a degree of pride in being represented and responsible for our actions, domestically and internationally.

I cannae wait.

I like your sentiment mate but it all appears to fantasy for my liking.

 

[Val]

Who would be? Labour?

Possibly, if they had a more charismatic leader I'd have said definately yes.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

As I've said previously I like your views on what a Scotland could look like....

As you're not aligned with SNP, do you think an independent Scotland would/could move away from them as the ruling party in time? Or are the majority of yes voters more aligned to SNP than yourself and tied to them as the "way forward" do you think?

I'm not sure where you live or what your politics are?But the SNP is a marriage of convenience, a rag tag group if small 'c' conservatives,liberal pro-business capitalists and some left leaning centreground merchants all under the same banner of nationalism...folk seem to forget the conservative party in Scotland, using PR, is actually quite well supported, esp in the borders/galloway and right up north.But they are different to the Conservative party in England, make no mistake.

But to answer your question, in my opinion,The SNP would skoosh any election post yes victory,then disintegrate with infighting...NATO being a biggie.I actually think Scottish Labour/Green would dominate in 10 years.

 

[NWJocko]

I'm not sure where you live or what your politics are?But the SNP is a marriage of convenience, a rag tag group if small 'c' conservatives,liberal pro-business capitalists and some left leaning centreground merchants all under the same banner of nationalism...folk seem to forget the conservative party in Scotland, using PR, is actually quite well supported, esp in the borders/galloway and right up north.But they are different to the Conservative party in England, make no mistake.

But to answer your question, in my opinion,The SNP would skoosh any election post yes victory,then disintegrate with infighting...NATO being a biggie.I actually think Scottish Labour/Green would dominate in 10 years.

Live in NW England, have done for 10 years hence me being out of touch! When I,left the SNP were on their jacksies, shows how quickly times change.........

My (less informed than it would be) view is that Salmond would actually brick himself if he woke up to a yes vote. He's always promised to deliver a referendum and his attempts to get "devo max" on the ballot paper betrayed him a little.

Your post about ignoring yes and no camps is probably the way to think about it, but we all know that the majority of the electorate will be swayed by what they read and see as part of the campaign......

 

[Old Skier]

I want to live in a country that represents itself internationally, that elects people that reflects our society and make decisions for our benefit.Right now, and i'm sure no one would disagree,Scotland is not accurately reflected by Westminster politiking and with the dramatic change in Labour policy, we never will be again.

I wonder how long it will be before the people of the Highlands start using the same argument about being accuratly reflected by the Scotish Parliament.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I wonder how long it will be before the people of the Highlands start using the same argument about being accuratly reflected by the Scotish Parliament.

The Highlands have historically been a liberal stronghold so I think they would tend to go along with Adi's views.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

A nickname you say? Nor funny or pleasant

On 'Jockanese' - I admit to using that as a term to describe my nationality - but I do so in a self-depracating way so rather taking the piss out of myself. I'm not sure I really like being called Jockanese by others - but I grin and bear it. And usually come up with some less than pithy response.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

On 'Jockanese' - I admit to using that as a term to describe my nationality - but I do so in a self-depracating way so rather taking the piss out of myself. I'm not sure I really like being called Jockanese by others - but I grin and bear it. And usually come up with some less than pithy response.

...and as the discussion has hopefully finished - I'll conclude with my thoughts on being called a 'Jock'. I used to dislike it because it didn't recognise the fact that I was a Weegie - but lumped me in with everyone else. But these days - not really fussed as usually used in a friendly and 'jockular' (sorry) way - even although statements made to me starting 'you Jocks...' are often not always that complementary about us - but that's another matter altogether

 

[Adi2Dassler]

I wonder how long it will be before the people of the Highlands start using the same argument about being accuratly reflected by the Scotish Parliament.

Becuase we use the democratically correct electoral procedure up here called Proportional Representation, everyone is fairly represented up here, something The UK could learn from.