Scotland Debate

[Val]

I've said my piece again on it, I don't particularly like the term as I find it patronising and would rather not be called it. Do I find it racist? Sometimes, all I context but as already stated I would rather it not used at me directly.

Yet again we have a thread ruined because casual racism is questioned, I didn't set out to cause trouble on the thread and merely defended my stance.

My last word on this subject, mods any chance of splitting this to get the actual thread back on track?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Why are you trying to justify it? Do you want it accepted?

I'll say it again in case you missed it the last time

It's casual racism. Whether it's accepted or not by family and friends is irrelevant, it is what it is

Just because you deem it "casual racism" doesn't mean it actually is

If you believe it's casual racism why haven't you taken it further ?

I don't need to justify anything nor do I need anything accepted

You can show me where it's deemed calling someone a jock or jockanese is racism - I expect you will be able to show plenty of instances where people have been charged and punished for racism for using both words.

Jock is not an aggressive abusive term - if anyone believes so then I think it's clear they are just looking to be offended

I'm guessing you reported the use of the word to the RMP's whilst in the Army

I can't stop you being offended by the word - but saying I'm using casually racism I would ask you to stop because that is offensive

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I've said my piece again on it, I don't particularly like the term as I find it patronising and would rather not be called it. Do I find it racist? Sometimes, all I context but as already stated I would rather it not used at me directly.

Yet again we have a thread ruined because casual racism is questioned, I didn't set out to cause trouble on the thread and merely defended my stance.

My last word on this subject, mods any chance of splitting this to get the actual thread back on track?

When you accuse people of racism they will defend themselves - strongly as well

I'm actually disgusted that you just throw the word around without a thought of how damaging it can be

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

Yet again we have a thread ruined because casual racism is questioned, I didn't set out to cause trouble on the thread and merely defended my stance.

Yet again we have a thread ruined because someone raises a completely unnecessary point, and moves the attention away from it, for no reason other than they feel a little bit offended by something written out there. You knew it would go down this route. Also, you weren't called it, actually, it was used in passing in a thread by someone else I believe....

 

[dewsweeper]

As a new person this thread makes very sad reading. Casual racism and dig after dig. Not a nice thread.

Wendy,
Well said.I am afraid too many threads seem to degenerate on this forum of late.
I said this a few weeks back and someone replied and said it is often this way when we are not playing enough golf!!
Hope they are correct,I detest the way this thread has wavered into personal accusations after some very good and well thought arguments for both views of devolution.
I am a 'cockernee' living in Cheshire and married to a girl from Greenock and have learnt from the debate that there is much more to devolution than first meets the eye,I think I am for the status quo.
DFT ,I felt your acronym 'fuk'was far below your usual considered arguments ,which I tend to agree with more often than not.
Dewsweeper

 

[Blue in Munich]

Just because you deem it "casual racism" doesn't mean it actually is

If you believe it's casual racism why haven't you taken it further ?

I don't need to justify anything nor do I need anything accepted

You can show me where it's deemed calling someone a jock or jockanese is racism - I expect you will be able to show plenty of instances where people have been charged and punished for racism for using both words.

Jock is not an aggressive abusive term - if anyone believes so then I think it's clear they are just looking to be offended

I'm guessing you reported the use of the word to the RMP's whilst in the Army

I can't stop you being offended by the word - but saying I'm using casually racism I would ask you to stop because that is offensive

What is racism?

Racism is defined in the Stephen Lawrence Inquiry Report as: “Conduct or words which advantage or disadvantage people because of their colour, culture or ethnic origin. In its subtle form it is more damaging than in its overt form”

Racism can be expressed individually and consciously and also it can be through institutions that promote inequalities between races, for example:

• Physical assault because of colour ethnicity or nationality
• Use of derogatory names, insults and racist jokes
• Racist graffiti and other written racist material
• Provocative behaviour such as wearing racist badges or insignia
• Bringing racist materials into schools
• Verbal abuse and threats
• Incitement of others to recruit to racist organisations and groups
• Ridicule of an individual for cultural difference e.g. food, music, religion, dress etc
• Refusal to co-operate with other people because of their colour, ethnic origin, or nationality
• Written derogatory remarks

Explain what "Jock" is then, if not a derogatory name?

 

[SocketRocket]

Ok, heres my take:

If I use the term: Jock, Jockaneese, Jockabite et al; I use it light heartedly and more as a term of endearment. Just like when I call a mate of mine 'Taff'. It's the way our sense of humour has always been in our Nation, light hearted mick taking of each other has 'in my opinion' been something that has been a symptom of our humour and bond.

I appreciate that some do seem to find it insulting and I am big enough to apologise if it has caused offence, it genuinely was not intended to. On the other hand maybe they can also understand that none of it is to racially abuse anyone. Regarding the Scotts, I have always considered them a great Nation that have stood shoulder by shoulder with the rest of us through the most trying times.

I hope they decide to remain with us and the Nation can move on from this time of uncertainty. If they decide otherwise then good luck to them in their venture and we will just have to make the best of what is left.

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

Explain what "Jock" is then, if not a derogatory name?

A name for a group of people, from Scotland. I've not heard it used as derogatory, but purely as a describing term.

 

[Blue in Munich]

A name for a group of people, from Scotland. I've not heard it used as derogatory, but purely as a describing term.

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/jock_3

English definition of “Jock”



Jock

noun http://dictionary.cambridge.org/help/codes.html /dÊ’É’k/

/dʒɑːk/ UK slang

›​

A man who comes from Scotland. This word is considered offensive by some people.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

A decent conversation about the most important thing to happen in The UK since WWII ruined by folk using stupid terms and others getting too easily insulted by it.

Are you not desperate for Scotland to be independent ?

Yes I am, but I want it done on the most amicable terms possible, which judging by the turn on this thread, is unlikley.

 

[Val]

Ok, heres my take:

If I use the term: Jock, Jockaneese, Jockabite et al; I use it light heartedly and more as a term of endearment. Just like when I call a mate of mine 'Taff'. It's the way our sense of humour has always been in our Nation, light hearted mick taking of each other has 'in my opinion' been something that has been a symptom of our humour and bond.

i appreciate that some do seem to find it insulting and I am big enough to apologise if it has caused offence, it genuinely was not intended to. On the other hand maybe they can also understand that none of it is to racially abuse anyone. Regarding the Scotts, I have always considered them a great Nation that have stood shoulder by shoulder with the rest of us through the most trying times.

I hope they decide to remain with us and the Nation can move on from this time of uncertainty. If they decide otherwise then good luck to them in their venture and we will just have to make the best of what is left.

Does that include me?

 

[SocketRocket]

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/jock_3

English definition of “Jock”



Jock

noun http://dictionary.cambridge.org/help/codes.html /dÊ’É’k/

/dʒɑːk/ UK slang

›​

A man who comes from Scotland. This word is considered offensive by some people.

You may want to try that one again

 

[SocketRocket]

Does that include me?

It was mainly directed at you :thup:

 

[Val]

A decent conversation about the most important thing to happen in The UK since WWII ruined by folk using stupid terms and others getting too easily insulted by it.

And apologies for my part in it but I won't ever back down from something I believe in, like many here.

As to independence, is there anything in the debate that the YES campaign might not get that would be a deal breaker for you not to vote YES?

 

[Blue in Munich]

You may want to try that one again

I did, whilst you were typing!

 

[Val]

It was mainly directed at you :thup:

Jesus, what a night :thup:

 

[SocketRocket]

Jesus, what a night :thup:

As my mate would reply: "Its better than selling Bricks"

 

[Val]

As my mate would reply: "Its better than selling Bricks"

My days of selling bricks are gone the day I left Keyline thankfully

 

[NWJocko]

And apologies for my part in it but I won't ever back down from something I believe in, like many here.

As to independence, is there anything in the debate that the YES campaign might not get that would be a deal breaker for you not to vote YES?

Was going to ask Adi the same thing.....

FWIW, re the "Jock" thing.... I've lived down here for 10 years so am probably numb to it now but everyone I met when I moved down here automatically called me that, even random blokes/women in a boozer id just been introduced to. It mightily pi**ed me off, and still does if someone I don't know calls me that. It is different in person, with friends, in context.

My username on here was, less the NW, what I was called when I started playing football down here and I use it for here almost tongue in cheek (I've been used in this sort of argument in the past and have tried to stay out of it!!)....

 

[Foxholer]

Jesus, what a night :thup:

That'd be blasphemy in some US States.:rofl:

Or even parts of rUK!