Scotland Debate

[Deleted member 18588]

I think I would also add the SNP vote to the centre left votes. Kind of changes the perspective a bit.

The SNP have a history of attempting to be all things to all men in order to secure their stated aim.

However, I find myself wondering whether you are pro-independence or merely anti-Tory as you scoff at your late father's suggestion that the Labour party were in anyway responsible for the outbreak of WW II.

Many students of the period have similar views that their pro-appeasement, pro-disarmament views led many, including Hitler, to assume that there was no stomach for a war in the UK at that time.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

The SNP have a history of attempting to be all things to all men in order to secure their stated aim.

However, I find myself wondering whether you are pro-independence or merely anti-Tory as you scoff at your late father's suggestion that the Labour party were in anyway responsible for the outbreak of WW II.

Many students of the period have similar views that their pro-appeasement, pro-disarmament views led many, including Hitler, to assume that there was no stomach for a war in the UK at that time.

I beg you pardon......scoff at my late fathers view, whatever made you jump to that conclusion.
I tended to agree with him on that one.

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

T

Answer me this, how can England move away from Scotland politically when they have no devolved powers?

Quite easily? If the general political consensus of the voters in England moves to the right, then you could say "England has moved away from Scotland politically". I don't think that it requires England to have a devolved government to judge this. I'm not arguing that this has happened, just that the above is how I see that phrase could be correct

 

[Deleted member 18588]

I beg you pardon......scoff at my late fathers view, whatever made you jump to that conclusion.
I tended to agree with him on that one.

My apologies.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

My apologies.

Thanks, accepted.

 

[Val]

Quite easily? If the general political consensus of the voters in England moves to the right, then you could say "England has moved away from Scotland politically". I don't think that it requires England to have a devolved government to judge this. I'm not arguing that this has happened, just that the above is how I see that phrase could be correct

Ok, I see your thinking but my reading of SILH suggested a physical move ie differing policies in both countries which cannot happen unless the devolved Scottish parliament want to and if the have the appropriate powers, not vice versa

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Thanks, accepted.

It appears that we are of similar vintage and, thus, so were our fathers. My dear old fella' thought the same as your father and having researched it over the years I would have to, in part at least, agree with them.

 

[Old Skier]

It appears that we are of similar vintage and, thus, so were our fathers. My dear old fella' thought the same as your father and having researched it over the years I would have to, in part at least, agree with them.

Shows how things have changed. Since the 1970's the Torys have been the major influence and responsible for the massive reduction of the armed forces.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

It appears that we are of similar vintage and, thus, so were our fathers. My dear old fella' thought the same as your father and having researched it over the years I would have to, in part at least, agree with them.

I can remember my dad saying, 'they went to war with four warplanes'.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Shows how things have changed. Since the 1970's the Torys have been the major influence and responsible for the massive reduction of the armed forces.

I think it is what is known as the"peace dividend", and you know how the Tories love a dividend.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Quite easily? If the general political consensus of the voters in England moves to the right, then you could say "England has moved away from Scotland politically". I don't think that it requires England to have a devolved government to judge this. I'm not arguing that this has happened, just that the above is how I see that phrase could be correct

That's how I understand what's being said.

And anyway why can I not raise a point of view that may not be mine? Do I have to believe in everything I post

 

[Val]

That's how I understand what's being said.

And anyway why can I not raise a point of view that may not be mine? Do I have to believe in everything I post

In the interest of debate, if you don't believe it how can you debate it objectively?

Should add though, it appears all your views recently have been other peoples thoughts.

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

And anyway why can I not raise a point of view that may not be mine? Do I have to believe in everything I post

Yes.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

In the interest of debate, if you don't believe it how can you debate it objectively?

Should add though, it appears all your views recently have been other peoples thoughts.

I listen to and read a lot about the referendum - but as I live in England and have done so for a long time I can't really say whether or not I believe it. I am an outsider looking in. I can't tell you how I'd really feel on many issues associated with the referendum if I had a vote - because I don't. The truth is that as much as anything I'm looking to see how those who do have a vote feel on these things to help me understand better - so your responses are (believe it or not) welcome and informative for me.

Though on the 'England moving away from Scotland' suggestion - I can understand that one as I do not like the direction politics and socio-economic views held by the majority is going in England (on unemployment, NHS, benefits, immigration, Europe etc). I can't tell whether the same is happening in Scotland but from what I read it isn't to the same extent so simply on that basis I'd say the gap is widening.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Though on the 'England moving away from Scotland' suggestion - I can understand that one as I do not like the direction politics and socio-economic views held by the majority is going in England (on unemployment, NHS, benefits, immigration, Europe etc). I can't tell whether the same is happening in Scotland but from what I read it isn't to the same extent so simply on that basis I'd say the gap is widening.

Can't quite work out where you are getting your assessment of the feeling of the English public. Have you travelled the country extensively speaking to a large cross section of the electorate or have you had a chat with a few chums at Farnham.

On the overall scale of twaddle this seems to be a new high.

 

[Old Skier]

I do not like the direction politics and socio-economic views held by the majority is going in England (on unemployment, NHS, benefits, immigration, Europe etc). I can't tell whether the same is happening in Scotland but from what I read it isn't to the same extent so simply on that basis I'd say the gap is widening.

That's because so many Scots appear to have moved south of the border and are insisting that their MPs take on their scio-economic views.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

That's because so many Scots appear to have moved south of the border and are insisting that their MPs take on their scio-economic views.

Probably more to do with the influx of Eastern Europeans.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Probably more to do with the influx of Eastern Europeans.

That was what I thought when I was last in Edinburgh.

 

[SocketRocket]

I listen to and read a lot about the referendum - but as I live in England and have done so for a long time I can't really say whether or not I believe it. I am an outsider looking in. I can't tell you how I'd really feel on many issues associated with the referendum if I had a vote - because I don't. The truth is that as much as anything I'm looking to see how those who do have a vote feel on these things to help me understand better - so your responses are (believe it or not) welcome and informative for me.

Though on the 'England moving away from Scotland' suggestion - I can understand that one as I do not like the direction politics and socio-economic views held by the majority is going in England (on unemployment, NHS, benefits, immigration, Europe etc). I can't tell whether the same is happening in Scotland but from what I read it isn't to the same extent so simply on that basis I'd say the gap is widening.

That can be fixed. We can send our unemployed, Benefit scroungers, immigrants, etc up to Scotland. Would that make them feel more comfortable?

Seriously though, you must be aware of the state of the economy, that we are massively in debt with crippling interest rates to fund the welfare feeding frenzy the country embarked on without the wealth to fund it. You cannot be so naive not to see that the country is expanding at a rate where the infrastructure to support it is unaffordable, that we have been spending far too much on a bloated public sector where we cannot fund the massive black hole in the resultant pension funds. UKIP made massive gains in the UK and also in Scotland which is a reflection of the way people north and south of the border feel about their lot. Some bloke down the pub keeps telling me he is sick and tired of it all and it will all end in tears, especially if Labour get in and reverse the good work done so far by the colalition.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

820,000 Scots living in poverty.
16% of our population
110,000 up on last year.

Just saying.