Scotland Debate
- Thread starter Doon frae Troon
- Start date
Val
Ryder Cup Winner
Possibly a majority decision within the party? I'm sure many members would be YES voters.
Val
Ryder Cup Winner
Adi2Dassler
Journeyman Pro
I think they're scared of their own shadow and are being told in no uncertain terms by Milliband etc what to do.I'm not a massive fan of Johann Lamont, but she looks totally unconvinced by her own argument whenever I see her.That, along with a pathological hatred at Salmond is blinding Scottish Labour, if only they could see them joining YES is the easiest and quickest was of defeating Salmond long term.
C
c1973
Guest
I may be wrong, not certain about this, but I'm pretty sure it is a devolved parliament and the SNP voted through a name change a few years back; meaning it isn't actually a government as such. No?
I remember ranting about the cost of changing all the branding etc when it happened, or did I???
Adi2Dassler
Journeyman Pro
I may be wrong, not certain about this, but I'm pretty sure it is a devolved parliament and the SNP voted through a name change a few years back; meaning it isn't actually a government as such. No?
I remember ranting about the cost of changing all the branding etc when it happened, or did I???
Yes and No...we're all winners!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Government
C
c1973
Guest
Nope. Can't have both of us being correct on here, that path leads to the dark side. So, we'll go 60/40 in my favour and shake on it.
Adi2Dassler
Journeyman Pro
Nope. Can't have both of us being correct on here, that path leads to the dark side. So, we'll go 60/40 in my favour and shake on it.
Seeing as though I'm keen to adopt the moral high ground and want to give the minor victories to my adversaries, deal.
My eye is on the big prize
C
c1973
Guest
Seeing as though I'm keen to adopt the moral high ground and want to give the minor victories to my adversaries, deal.
My eye is on the big prize
Lol. I'll take the minors all day long.............mony a mickle maks a muckle* as my auld papa would have said.
English translation.
*many small things make a big thing.
Doon frae Troon
Ryder Cup Winner
I may be wrong, not certain about this, but I'm pretty sure it is a devolved parliament and the SNP voted through a name change a few years back; meaning it isn't actually a government as such. No?
I remember ranting about the cost of changing all the branding etc when it happened, or did I???
It changed because virtually everyone including the BBC were calling it that.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
This 10% figure. It could well be real - through the Barnett formula (watch out for a cut if NO). Or it could be the 10% not worse off if YES.
Val
Ryder Cup Winner
Says who?
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Perhaps you are.
I am also a NO, but live in England so have no say in the future of the UK. Which seems a shame, as I feel it will effect England and Wales too. That said, I do understand that this is about Scotland and for Scotland and so the Scots must decide.
I would urge the independence voters to ignore much of the poor rhetoric coming from Westminster, it does the UK campaign no favours. The best reason to stay together is quite simple, strength in numbers. There are things all of us dislike about Westminster, but to just leave would be to throw the baby out with the bath water. I wish I could vote as I want you to stay, we are better together. the UK needs Scotland and Scotland is stronger standing beside the English and Welsh, rather than against us. And if you don't think voting yes is going against England and Wales, you need to stop and think how it will feel to us.
Hi JamPal - you are a NO but don;t get a vote as you live in England - are you Scottish? Just to understand broader context of your NO.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Just saying watch out for one - not saying that there will be one.
And I'll add that in the event of a NO we in England will be looking for strong justification from Westminster for maintaining a significant differential in what Scotland gets per head of pop. Not saying the we all will be seeking a cut in the grant to Scotland - just a very good justification. Because all that free stuff that Scots get, when we down here are getting screwed left, right and centre doesn't seem quite right.
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c1973
Guest
More spending per head because more tax is raised per head maybe?
Only a wiki link as I couldn't be arsed looking further.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_spending_in_the_United_Kingdom
I'll be voting no, but I don't like this thought that Scots are subsidy junkies!
The figures are always going to be skewed anyway, England has a much larger population and would therefore require less spending per head on say a hospital than the other UK nations, simple math really. You would get a clearer picture if you took spending per head of population from geographical areas in England for comparison, say NW,NE,SW,SE,Midlands and London for example. Not sure how that would compare but I have a feeling it would paint a different picture perhaps.
MegaSteve
Tour Winner
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
That may all be true - but with the pressure on everything down here and cuts all over the place such logic and rationale may just not cut it for many.
Simple tabloid headline is that Scots get more per head in grant from Westminster than those south of the border (yes - maybe a generalisation but that is tabloid headlines for you) - and not only that, these Scots get loads of stuff for free that those in England have to pay for. The truth is what the people believe. Scotland decides to stay part of the UK - great! then Scotland per head gets the same per head amount as the rest of UK. If they wanted it differently they should have voted YES so the refrain may go.
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c1973
Guest
Quite frankly, anyone stupid enough to believe tabloid headlines gets what they deserve imo, if they're that thick then they shouldn't really get involved. Harsh? Yes and I make no apologies for it.
Having said that, you are correct (in a way) in saying the truth is what people believe. What doesn't help is people, whom one would assume know better than to believe tabloid headlines, perpetuate the nonsense/lie/garbage (whichever fits) by disseminating it to others in a manner that some may take as factual.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Quite a few in my club take this view. It is simplistic; it may well be misguided and ill-informed; but it is what they believe. They find it very difficult to separate higher per head funding from free services. The former enables the latter - quite simple.
C
c1973
Guest
Then you could be the very man to set them straight.
It's a shame that scaremongering propaganda is so effective and the tabloids make a living off it.
Another way to look at it is this: without London with its square mile and Scotland with its oil the country could be 3rd world economically. Ergo every other area is sponging off those two.
