Scotland Debate

[Val]

The money needed to establish an independent Scotland will initially come from both sides of the border.

Initially? Does that mean Scotland will instantly become in debt to the remainder of the UK?

Where are you finding this information?

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Initially? Does that mean Scotland will instantly become in debt to the remainder of the UK?

Where are you finding this information?

It is in the Edinburgh Agreement.

 

[Val]

It is in the Edinburgh Agreement.

No it's not, if so point me to a paragraph and section I've missed.

The Edinburgh is an agreement for the referendum not an agreement post yes

 

[Doon frae Troon]

No it's not, if so point me to a paragraph and section I've missed.

The Edinburgh is an agreement for the referendum not an agreement post yes

I think it also includes the period post Yes and the actual independence day.

 

[Val]

I think it also includes the period post Yes and the actual independence day.

You think? Have you checked or are you happy posting inaccuracies without checking?

 

[Doon frae Troon]

You think? Have you checked or are you happy posting inaccuracies without checking?

That was my get out clause!
I am pretty certain I heard this debated after the Edinburgh Agreement was signed.
Perhaps you can prove me wrong?

 

[Val]

That was my get out clause!
I am pretty certain I heard this debated after the Edinburgh Agreement was signed.
Perhaps you can prove me wrong?

I can, read the agreement.

 

[Hobbit]

The money needed to establish an independent Scotland will initially come from both sides of the border.

Are you sure?

It is in the Edinburgh Agreement.

Maybe its in a different version than the one I read...

You think? Have you checked or are you happy posting inaccuracies without checking?

C'mon Doon, give us the chapter and verse... or paragraph... that we've missed.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Section 30
Co-operation.

 

[Val]

Section 30
Co-operation.

Which makes no reference at all about money.

 

[Hobbit]

Section 30
Co-operation.

To quote, "Co-operation 30. The United Kingdom and Scottish Governments are committed, through the Memorandum of Understanding between them and others, to
working together on matters of mutual interest and to the principles of good communication and mutual respect. The two governments have reached this agreement in that spirit. They look forward to a referendum that is legal and
fair producing a decisive and respected outcome. The two governments are committed to continue to work together constructively in the light of the outcome, whatever it is, in the best interests of the people of Scotland and of
the rest of the United Kingdom."

So this section says that boths sides will finance the establishment of an independant Scotland... just where in the quoted section does it say that Doon?

 

[Doon frae Troon]

To quote, "Co-operation 30. The United Kingdom and Scottish Governments are committed, through the Memorandum of Understanding between them and others, to working together on matters of mutual interest and to the principles of good communication and mutual respect. The two governments have reached this agreement in that spirit.

That bit.

Defense, finance, diplomatic ties, transport, customs/border security, crime.....just for starters

 

[Hobbit]

To quote, "Co-operation 30. The United Kingdom and Scottish Governments are committed, through the Memorandum of Understanding between them and others, to
working together on matters of mutual interest and to the principles of good communication and mutual respect. The two governments have reached this agreement in that spirit. They look forward to a referendum that is legal and
fair producing a decisive and respected outcome. The two governments are committed to continue to work together constructively in the light of the outcome, whatever it is, in the best interests of the people of Scotland and of
the rest of the United Kingdom."

So this section says that boths sides will finance the establishment of an independant Scotland... just where in the quoted section does it say that Doon?

To quote, "Co-operation 30. The United Kingdom and Scottish Governments are committed, through the Memorandum of Understanding between them and others, to working together on matters of mutual interest and to the principles of good communication and mutual respect. The two governments have reached this agreement in that spirit.

That bit.

Defense, finance, diplomatic ties, transport, customs/border security, crime.....just for starters

No doubt it will cost all parties but I don't see rUK paying to set up establishments in Scotland, only financing the rejigging of establishments in rUK. But hey, if you want to interpret it differently, and see something that blantantly isn't there, knock yourself out.

You may even be right at the end of the day but nowhere in that document, or that clause, does it say rUK will finance the establishment of an independent Scotland. There's enough wriggle room in that clause for someone to say, "yes we support your right to do so, and recognise the outcome of the vote. Good luck and good bye."

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

No doubt it will cost all parties but I don't see rUK paying to set up establishments in Scotland, only financing the rejigging of establishments in rUK. But hey, if you want to interpret it differently, and see something that blantantly isn't there, knock yourself out.

You may even be right at the end of the day but nowhere in that document, or that clause, does it say rUK will finance the establishment of an independent Scotland. There's enough wriggle room in that clause for someone to say, "yes we support your right to do so, and recognise the outcome of the vote. Good luck and good bye."

Surely it will be necessary for a rUK government to part fund the disentanglement of iScot from the existing UK systems to ensure that the remaining rUK systems are as required. And in doing that the rUK will be part funding set up of those for iScot - especiallyu where systems of the two countries interface. Cooperation would be not just pragmatic but essential.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

The debate has kind of moved on after this weeks 'goons show'
Darling being ripped apart for quoting the set up costs by the professor who wrote the report he was quoting from.
Soapy being ripped apart by his own parliament by not quoting costing figures he had promised 2 years ago.

tweedle dee and tweedle dum.

I am more interested in Scotland being able to deliver a more equal society than exists at present in the UK.
The rich are becoming much richer and for the first time since 1945 we see food banks in every UK town.

If the UK is best option for Scotland how come there were 3 Dollars to the Pound in 1968 and only 1.5 in 2014.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

PS
Post 2314 are not my words.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

PS
Post 2314 are not my words.

I know

 

[Hobbit]

No doubt it will cost all parties but I don't see rUK paying to set up establishments in Scotland, only financing the rejigging of establishments in rUK. But hey, if you want to interpret it differently, and see something that blantantly isn't there, knock yourself out.

You may even be right at the end of the day but nowhere in that document, or that clause, does it say rUK will finance the establishment of an independent Scotland. There's enough wriggle room in that clause for someone to say, "yes we support your right to do so, and recognise the outcome of the vote. Good luck and good bye."

Surely it will be necessary for a rUK government to part fund the disentanglement of iScot from the existing UK systems to ensure that the remaining rUK systems are as required. And in doing that the rUK will be part funding set up of those for iScot - especiallyu where systems of the two countries interface. Cooperation would be not just pragmatic but essential.

Totally agree. Co-operation will be essential but my take on it is rUK will pay its side of the wall, and iScotland their side of the wall. There may be a purchase of services from either side, e.g. we'll do your 'x' if you'll pay 'y,' until either side has developed its own services.

But rUK paying to set up something in Scotland that rUK doesn't need... if you believe that, you're deluded.

EDIT: something very weird going on with the quoting tool today.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Totally agree. Co-operation will be essential but my take on it is rUK will pay its side of the wall, and iScotland their side of the wall. There may be a purchase of services from either side, e.g. we'll do your 'x' if you'll pay 'y,' until either side has developed its own services.

But rUK paying to set up something in Scotland that rUK doesn't need... if you believe that, you're deluded.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Re x and y.
Translate that into Trident for starters and you will see that it is not so simple.