Scotland Debate

[FairwayDodger]

One thing (of many) that I don't understand is how they break these down....

So, Danny Alexander says every Scottish citizen will be £1400 better off by staying in the Union. And Salmond et al have previously said (something along the lines of) we'd all be £1000 better off in an independent Scotland.

Now, I don't believe that I personally will be any better or worse off either way. How on earth are they coming up with these figures and what do they really mean?

 

[c1973]

One thing (of many) that I don't understand is how they break these down....

So, Danny Alexander says every Scottish citizen will be £1400 better off by staying in the Union. And Salmond et al have previously said (something along the lines of) we'd all be £1000 better off in an independent Scotland.

Now, I don't believe that I personally will be any better or worse off either way. How on earth are they coming up with these figures and what do they really mean?

I'm not 100% sure, but it's not cash in your pocket as such, it's a combination of taxation levels and how much cash is spent per head of population on public services, NHS etc.

For example, higher taxation + less public spending = you being x amount worse off. Think that's what it means.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

Maybe because it's not really expected to happen from either side and isn't being taken very serious by the majority ?

Aye, that'll be it.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Aye, that'll be it.

But how can the status quo make me any better off? - the status quo is the status quo. A change might make be better or worse off but with the status quo I remain as I am - neither better nor worse off than before.

 

[FairwayDodger]

But how can the status quo make me any better off? - the status quo is the status quo. A change might make be better or worse off but with the status quo I remain as I am - neither better nor worse off than before.

It's spin, Hogan. We are £1400 better off in the union is the positive way of saying we'll be £1400 worse off if we leave.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

One thing (of many) that I don't understand is how they break these down....

So, Danny Alexander says every Scottish citizen will be £1400 better off by staying in the Union. And Salmond et al have previously said (something along the lines of) we'd all be £1000 better off in an independent Scotland.

Now, I don't believe that I personally will be any better or worse off either way. How on earth are they coming up with these figures and what do they really mean?

I agree - besides - over what timescales. Immediately (chance would be a fine thing); 1yr, 2yrs, 10yrs?

All this bandying about of better or worse off figures from both sides of the argument is IMO dancing on a pin-head, an irrelevance and a distraction from the real issues, benefits and pitfalls.

It's a bit like telling me I should switch power supplier as I'll £500 better off - then I discover that that figure is over 5 years - so £100 a year - so less than £2 a week. Sorry. For me no big deal. And that is the truth of all these 'individuals being better or worse off' figures and 'debate'. On a day-to-day basis the amounts they are talking about are almost totally insignificant to the vast majority and are simply 'lost in the noise' of our daily expenditure.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

It's spin, Hogan. We are £1400 better off in the union is the positive way of saying we'll be £1400 worse off if we leave.

Pity - I was rather thinking of telling my mum to vote NO so she would get a windfall of £1400.

 

[FairwayDodger]

Pity - I was rather thinking of telling my mum to vote NO so she would get a windfall of £1400.

And then next year we can vote YES and get the payoff from the nats!

:whoo:

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

And then next year we can vote YES and get the payoff from the nats!

:whoo:

I think it sad when I look North and see so much being made of 'better and worse off' numbers when we are not talking about life post a budget or indeed post a GenElect when such considerations are absolutely valid. Yes - consider the future prosperity of the country as a whole - but not this individual money stuff when we are talking about the future of a country; it's relationship with it's nearest neighbour; and it's place in the world.

Anyway...

 

[FairwayDodger]

I think it sad when I look North and see so much being made of 'better and worse off' numbers when we are not talking about life post a budget or indeed post a GenElect when such considerations are absolutely valid. Yes - consider the future prosperity of the country as a whole - but not this individual money stuff when we are talking about the future of a country; it's relationship with it's nearest neighbour; and it's place in the world.

Anyway...

Totally agree, all this is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things

 

[IanG]

Surely the independence decision is so momentous and long term that details about whether we're £1000 better or worse off, or whether UKIP will form the next Westminster government are not the real basis on which we who have a vote should be deciding.

This is good news really because (in my opinion) we will not have reliable information on any such detailed questions come polling day.

The way I see it is that we need to ask ourselves simply "do we WANT to be independent" or "do we WANT to be part of the UK"? And by "want" I'm afraid I mean in our guts & hearts. For such a long term decision, known unknowns such whether England will vote the UK out of Europe are small beer in comparison to what country we want to live in.

Take an example, imagine someone persuaded you that it would be economically better to become the 52nd state of the USA. Despite all the geo-political clout that would bring, would you sign up? I suspect most of us would answer rather fast with a 'thanks but, no-thanks', because we don't 'want' to be part of the US. We don't need, nor should we use, microscopic analysis to know the answer.

So when all the froth has died away and we find ourselves alone in the polling booth in September, I suspect most of us will find it pretty easy to know which way we want to vote. And if we all answer that question honestly we'll get the correct outcome for both Scotland and the rUK - whatever that is. Finding out the answer is the purpose of the poll after all.

 

[FairwayDodger]

Ian for First Minister!

:thup:

 

[IanG]

Ian for First Minister!

:thup:

Only if Eck leaves me some pies...

 

[Slab]

More importantly will an independent Scotland get its own internet country code, maybe .sco ?

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Every report from the yes campaign is positive to an independent Scotland, do you not question that Doon?

Of course.
It all comes down to which of the two liars do you believe most!

 

[Val]

There is always spare cash around, look how much of it the UK government spent on the Somerset levels this winter.
Non story as it was always going to happen if Scotland won independence.

Pardon the geography lesson but what has Somerset got to do with Scotland?

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Pardon the geography lesson but what has Somerset got to do with Scotland?

The money needed to establish an independent Scotland will initially come from both sides of the border.

 

[CMAC]

Surely the independence decision is so momentous and long term that details about whether we're £1000 better or worse off, or whether UKIP will form the next Westminster government are not the real basis on which we who have a vote should be deciding.

This is good news really because (in my opinion) we will not have reliable information on any such detailed questions come polling day.

The way I see it is that we need to ask ourselves simply "do we WANT to be independent" or "do we WANT to be part of the UK"? And by "want" I'm afraid I mean in our guts & hearts. For such a long term decision, known unknowns such whether England will vote the UK out of Europe are small beer in comparison to what country we want to live in.

Take an example, imagine someone persuaded you that it would be economically better to become the 52nd state of the USA. Despite all the geo-political clout that would bring, would you sign up? I suspect most of us would answer rather fast with a 'thanks but, no-thanks', because we don't 'want' to be part of the US. We don't need, nor should we use, microscopic analysis to know the answer.

So when all the froth has died away and we find ourselves alone in the polling booth in September, I suspect most of us will find it pretty easy to know which way we want to vote. And if we all answer that question honestly we'll get the correct outcome for both Scotland and the rUK - whatever that is. Finding out the answer is the purpose of the poll after all.

nicely put:thup:




can I just add you would have to be Dence to vote independence!

 

[Doon frae Troon]

nicely put:thup:




can I just add you would have to be Dence to vote independence!

Well you have just called half a nation ignorant..........brave.

 

[FairwayDodger]

Well you have just called half a nation ignorant..........brave.

LESS than half!